Will you please accept a transfer of my account balance? I will pay you $200 or so for your troubles. Does 95% vig sound ok to you? Since you are so confident in the safety of the funds there and your ability to cash it out soon, this is a great deal! A few minutes of work for a simple transfer and you make $200.

I understand this sets a bit of a precedent and you can't afford to do such transfers with everyone because of delays in getting your money back, etc. I get that. But if you are here dclaring your confidence in the site, I'm willing to let you prove it. Heck, I will even let you pay me 100% for my lock funds if you like....thought I would offer a little vig though just for your troubles.

Bob laying down the wood.

why does this deserve its own thread?

I mean. If I believe spurs have a 50% chance of winning on Wednesday and my friend offers me Spurs +180, I wouldn't take that. Reason being Spurs 3-way price is +310ish at most books.

So any Lock pro is probably gonna go to the transfer thread where their X amount of money will get them more lock funds.

That being said, I'm gonna make a prediction that somebody does actually take you up on this offer and buy the funds for .95 or higher. It'll probably end up being a Lock pro due to the fact someone without any tie to the company would be dumb for the reason I stated above. A lock pro could do it to help their company out and the community as a whole.

Edit: might want to list acct balance too or a ballpark range. In theory it shouldn't matter, but it has to since some people can't part w/ too much money for longer than a couple weeks and also because some people simply don't have enough to buy some accts.

Buy the way, I don't actually believe Spurs have a 50% chance of winning. That was just an example.

Chelsea are going to smash us

How noble of you to volunteer to be the guy to benefit from letting Lock Pros make an example of confident into the company.

I think the selling of funds stuff is silly unless we start to talk about real six figures and up.

I mean, people are talking about insolvency, what are these 10-40k bets going to do if the people betting against see Lock go under? It's but a drip in the bucket of the people who will be left hanging.

What is needed?

- The cashing out of transfers policy clearly stated tomorrow (yesterday, a week ago... but tomorrow is the best thing at this point).

- No more poor communication and lies about things that shouldn't even be a big deal (Trip to Portugal, legitimate security issues shouldn't shut down transfer cashouts, etc.).

- Lock pros saying nothing other than "Yes, I screwed up, I should've been asking these questions over 6 months ago and asking them on my own part and reporting to you. You guys are coming to me now and I'm asking the questions now and they told me 3-4 weeks. I know they've told you things like that for 6 months now with nothing coming to fruit. But a lot of the behind the scenes stuff makes sense to me, and since the promise is only 3-4 weeks, please wait this out with me. I know I screwed up by being over confident and inattentive, but I still do believe in this company and in 3-4 weeks they can either prove that or you'll see me show the same attitude as the most angry person in this thread." Or stepping down now, but given the confidence most pros show in Lock, they should be saying nothing other than what I put in quotes. You can't convince people things are OK with the same lines that they've heard and seen proven wrong for 6 months, even if you somehow knew with 100% certainty they were true (and just couldn't say).

- Come clean on Girah incident. Assuming no lawsuit existed, "We didn't end up suing him, we didn't tell anyone because it was an embarrassing mark on our company and we really dropped the ball on our part of security and verification of the contest at the time. While working on a Network (Merge) at the time complicated efforts, we take full responsibility for the massive screw up, and we're sorry. We apologize for the continued frustration and non answers we gave for the 1.5 years following the scandal. We've strengthened our security team and we want to prevent these terrible incidents from happening again."

I'm not sure how you explain some of Shane's explanations and excuses that haven't panned out, nor do I know how you explain the casino bonuses scandal. But I would start with the above if I ran Lock and knew the $$ was there.

By the way Bob, how do you have any money still on Lock? You were one of the biggest posters as far as pointing out all that was wrong with Lock for the last 2 years. The scandals, the absence of good reasoning, the absence of good support. The lack of clarity on many things.

I suppose (as you stated in some of your posts over the years) you wanted Lock to succeed. But isn't that the same type of reasoning all the pros are currently giving?

Honestly, in my eyes, the pros, affiliates and players that knew of the issues (such as yourself) share similar blame if Lock were to go under (and that doesn't mean they should be torched or that it was all their individual fault). You may not have been promoting to get others to sign up Bob, but you simply playing on the site helps contribute to the site succeeding. And the main thing is, by playing on the site, you were out for your own gain, the same reason affiliates and pros often look the other way or refuse to ask tough questions as early as players or industry observers.

Wow. what a ridiculous post and idiotic accusation. You saying I am somehow complicit in the lock situation without knowing a damn thing about me is pretty damn bold. How on earth do you get the nerve to post that much less even have that stupid opinion in the first place?

None of this should be any of your business or concern at all but you've kind of put me in a position here. Gee. Thanks.

I have not played there in several months. I got most of my money off of there quite awhile ago. I was hoping the transfer rate might improve or the situation there would get better and I was hoping that waiting it out might be okay. Just like I'm waiting it out now instead of taking the .35 rate currently available. So screw off with your crappy accusations and rude assumptions and declarations.

MOD FIGHT!!!!111

Yeah, I think that's pretty absurd too. People who are promoting and continue to stand by this site are obviously in an entirely different category than anyone that simply played there on their own money regardless of whether they thought it was shaky ground or not.

its always nice when "know it alls"(forum mods) bicker.....continue on proving whos smarter!

Not trying to be a know it all. Put in an awkward position with a ridiculous accusation and not in a mood to politely respond to something so rude and ridiculous.


But back in other news: Still no offers from anyone who believes that lock is in good shape and that the funds are fine. I'm shocked! I read multiple accounts of people who believe in this company and how they believe the organization is so secure financially. Would be so easy for ANY of them to prove how confident they are by even accepting PART of the balance in my account via transfer.

The money is safe...right guys? It's just as good as cash in your hand...with just a slight delay there....right? My PM lines are open and I'm excited to hear from you!

C'mon Bob. You've been posting in this forum for 2 years now calling them out on their bull**** tactics. To even have a penny still left on the site is a poor decision minimum. If the site comes back after all the crap you've seen them pull, you could simply put money back on very easily. Don't talk about it not being my business either. You made a thread asking for 3x the market rate on Lock and somehow convinced yourself that this is a gesture of good will on your own part.

I don't feel pros are complicit in the scam (if it is a scam). I think pros, players and affiliates desperate for money are a lot of what has driven Lock to where it is, but the solution is not to shame any of them into quitting (see how it just happens after payouts are taking many months? Not after the site goes through multiple scandals and lies about it pros weren't getting **** then, affiliates were happy to send players to Lock and players were happy to play there on unsustainable deals and through scandals that were lied about), the solution is a stronger infrastructure in the poker world.

Merge allowed them to start the under the table deals, allowed them to speculate on their own unreliable cashier (given how often they were down, many processors likely hit and ran) and allowed the casino bonuses scandal to go unchecked. If the Merge management at the time had enforced rules, Lock wouldn't of grown to half the size they grew to before leaving for Cake and they would've had to address a lot of things they got away with in a post black friday world.

It's a reflection of the market we're in that this happens. No matter how many pros or affiliates you shame or players you educate, there will be lines of them ready to make money at the next big thing, no matter how shady it is. Lock wasn't going to be able to start their own network from scratch and succeed. They obviously don't have the type of resources and execution to do that. But other networks (primarily Merge, but probably Cake too) are the ones that need to root out the problems and allow them to attempt to succeed in an honest way. You can't expect players (and pros) along with affiliates to do anything most of the time except look to make money.

I didn't make any ridiculous accusation though Bob. You've known how ****ty Lock is for awhile, your posts are all over this forum. You still have money there. That's not on me, and that's not an accusation. I just don't understand how you truly think you're doing anyone a favor by volunteering to have your funds cashed off of lock at 3x the market rate. Other than yourself.

I think you're pretty far off on this, Chicago. No one should be standing by this site at this point and issuing assurances to people that everything is okay when that's clearly not the case. You can call this shaming, but scamming people is shameful in most peoples' book. If any potential players go from depositing to not depositing onto this site as a result of a Lock pro stepping down and not promoting the site any longer, I consider that a pretty big accomplishment.

Are you seriously not able to figure out the sarcasm? Are you really that dense? This isn't that hard to figure out.

But since you are apparently to blinded by whatever odd fury you have towards me and my ethics I will spell it out for you: It is a joke to showcase how the statements of anyone claiming they believe are secure can't be accurate...or else they would be buying up funds.



You don't understand because you are lacking in sarcasm abilities and basic reason.

Stating that I share any blame at all in what is happening in Lock just because I was lazy getting the rest of my money off of there is absolutely the most ridiculous accusation you could make.

You need to give this a rest. There is nothing to come after me about. And I am not deserving of your idiotic vitriol.

I was afraid to try to pull my funds because they could get stuck or a check could bounce as was happening with others. I wasn't sure whether to transfer at such a cheap price. I decided to wait it out. That's all. So get off your high-horse and stop criticizing me about something you know nothing about. I have some money stuck on there...just like a lot of other people...and consequently I'm somehow complicit in a scam? Are you drunk?

I made a silly thread offering my funds for 95% to any of the people out there who truly believed the Lock funds were 100% secure. I don't think I could make it any more obvious than to offer 95% when the going rate is 35% or whatever it is. And you didn't get the super-obvious and silly joke for whatever reason....which is fine. Things happen.

But to say I am complicit in anything Lock has done is completely idiotic. Go away now. Or go running around and pointing fingers and placing blame at anyone else on 2+2 who still has funds stuck on there if you like. That should go well.

What I don't understand is why all these people with vested interests consider the funds safe. If an independent reputable accounting firm came and proved that the players' funds are safe, I would buy that. Even if a Lock pro bought your funds it would not necessarily prove that Lock is in good shape.

jmur - No, it would not prove the funds were safe. It would only prove that such a person truly believes they are safe as he is claiming. But nobody from there is jumping on the transfer-train, right? Even if it's as low as .35? Well, that tells you what they really think about the security of the funds imo...but maybe not for some reason I'm not immediately thinking of I suppose.

Basically, the people who are saying the funds are safe are concerned also. Which I'm attempting to show with my little joking challenge to "prove that you really do believe in the safety of the funds...I have Lock $$...C'mon and grab 'em!"

But they can't publicly freak out about it on 2+2 or anything like that. Remember that the Lock Pros are getting paid into their Lock accounts also and have the same cashout difficulties apparently.

They want to continue getting paid. They want the money that has built up in their lock accounts to actually turn into real $$ someday. The only way for that to happen is for Lock to survive. They gain nothing monetarily by dropping Lock's sponsorship and/or publicly blasting them. Lock will simply say, "Okay then...see ya later. Bye." And for the Lock Pro...it's goodbye to $100k or whatever they have stuck on there.

Their only choice if they want their money is to continue stating they think everything is great...we love Lock....blah blah blah. They just can't afford to burn any bridges. Plus, there is also some wishful thinking in there too. Plus, Jen is a somewhat charming lady in person (so I've heard) and likely talks a good game and has some of them a little bit convinced....at least that MAYBE she's not blowing smoke when she has her big meeting at the retreat and talks with everyone that they have a great plan for successfully working through this.

It would be nice if one of the sponsored pros with a little self-respect would jump off the Lock-train, turn away from the possibility of the big payday at the end of this, and speak out against the nonsense. But what do they gain? They really don't know anything about what's going to happen with all this much more than any of us do. So they sit...and hope...that it will all work out and they will get the money. And they can tell themselves that they can always blast the company AFTER the whole thing falls apart...although that is burning that bridge with Jen and any potential future ventures...PLUS is possibly also burning bridges with other future sponsorships elsewhere.

You failed to include the next part of my message

Of course you're not the same as a pro, but I simply am making the point (I did not you were being sarcastic, I thought you were seriously trying to sell your Lock funds for 3x market value so Lock Pros could make some confidence point to the community), that someone who has been aware of Lock's actions for something like 2 years shouldn't have any money on Lock to sell at this point.

If your OP is sarcastic, then sorry, didn't realize. It really did look like you were trying to goad pros into buying your funds under a pretense that this is a good action for the community.

It's obviously not a popular point, but it's one I do stand by.

Not everyone with money on is to blame (blame is a bad word, it's more like is someone a victim or are they just getting screwed being greedy).

There were many players that knew Lock had lied to them before and done some shady things and made things up when asked direct questions and reasoning, but they still played there anyways knowing full well.

People compare to FTP here, but FTP is a poor example. I think the "oh FTP had pros too" part is what confuses everyone. FTP happened and it shocked everyone. If Lock went under in a month, everyone would not be shocked. Lock is more like UB/AP, the ones that promoted them the hardest were the ones that voiced the "new management and ownership is different, the problems are put behind them" lines the most, until the very end. Many probably believed those lines too, I heard some good people in this industry repeat them enough to where it sounded true enough.

But back to Lock. I knew a player receiving about 120% rakeback for massive volume last summer. I said... think about this for a minute, does it make any sense to you? You can't get over 50% on Merge, you can't get double digit value on Bovada even, and your max on Winning is under 50%. Why would a US facing site not only pay you over 2x more than their competition, but lose probably 30-40% of your rake and do this for a few months? Especially to someone who plays such an insane amount of volume as you...

He acknowledged that it was likely shady, not legitimate, but he simply could not stop playing there. His words, flat out, were that it was too good of an opportunity to pass up.

And he was not a unique player at all. So if he has like 20k stuck on Lock and they disappear in a week, is he a victim? In my mind, he was a speculator, full aware of a major risk of things busting, and he participated for profit. How is he any different from a pro or affiliate? The only distinction I can see is that affiliates and pros try to get others to sign up. The player doesn't do that, but the player generates rake and improves the action on the site. How can a pro get a ton of hate, an affiliate a little bit, but an informed player get none? Whether you think they should all get a ton of hate, a little bit of hate or no hate, I think the opinion on those three groups of people should be a lot closer than is currently reflected in public posts.

I don't know, I'm not throwing darts at these guys on a high horse either Bob. I'm simply pointing out that there were many more people outside of the pros that had at least as much information and signs of things being not right and they didn't demand answers to these questions either, they just kept playing as long as it was good for their bottom line.

And insolvency isn't the only questions, it's just the largest. If Lock is solvent, their history suggests they could blatantly take money or change rules retroactively at any time. This is a company that flat out made up a 10-20% bonus, pros and affiliates told players they'd get 10-20% more rakeback. Then they retroactively attached conditions that made it worth less than half of that. They then said they couldn't pay it out, even though the Network said that they could pay it out.

Anyhow, my point isn't that you're to blame Bob. When you had money on there I assumed you were playing with it, because it didn't make sense otherwise (but you said you were lazy/fearful about it, so my assumption was wrong), and people playing and generating rake with full knowledge of these issues... I'm not trying to say they or any of these other people are responsible for anything other than continuing to feed a beast they themselves do not trust.

It's not a popular opinion, it's easier to just identify a few mainstream pros and hate them for taking $$. But many more have taken money knowing even more negative things than pros, so I don't feel it's appropriate to look at this so narrowly (and incorrectly imo).

Yes, you made the point multiple times that you believe this. But equating that with having any blame at all in the situation is obnoxious and just plain dumb...and making the assumption that I have been giving them any business when I never said I was is just idiotic.

Are you going to run around telling the same thing to all of the other 2+2'ers on here who also have money on there? This forum is filled with them. I'm not the only one who has money on there yet you have singled me out. Personal thing against me or something? I don't want to be alone in your persecution.

So get working on that. They need to be told that they are idiots too....and that they are to blame for the situation that all of the other players are in.



Regarding the joke...it could not have possibly been any more obvious than it was.

Bob, I singled you out bc you made a thread and I didn't know you were being sarcastic.

And if you mean blame by having personal responsibility for putting money on a site knowing full well they were shady? Then, yes. There are many people on 2p2 that kept playing and deposited even knowing full aware of things like the casino bonuses scandal, the girah scandal and on again, off again cashouts.

Not everybody, no. And it's not "blame for the site going under." It's "if you put money into something you know is shady, but still put it in, you have to take some responsibility for your own actions." Do you disagree with that?

And your OP is not that obviously sarcastic. I didn't even find this thread, an industry guy pointed it out to me. Judging by some of the replies others felt you were being serious too. I apologize I missed the sarcasm. I can see how it could be sarcastic too. I realize I've offended you so much in this thread, but you did start a thread, apparently sarcastic, in the middle of some actual serious issues going on in this forum.

Geez, on and on here. I thought I was the one with the rambling reputation. A lot of what you are saying is either making some fairly bold assumptions about me, my thoughts, and my motives. Or is just almost completely irrelevant for this thread really.



What are you babbling about? This guy has nothing to do with me....or anything else worth discussing in this thread.

None of my own personal interest was any of your business and it still isn't but since you keep on harping: I fully acknowledge I was a speculator there with my funds.....and would have said the exact same thing 6-12 months ago. That's how it works. The trading was at .80. I thought I could wait it out and perhaps do better. And now I'm stuck thinking the same thing at .35...which might be right or it might be wrong.

I can still probably get some of my funds off of there RIGHT NOW if I want to make an offer like .25 or something in the actual p2p thread, right? But I choose not to. Which is 100% my choice.

I never ever ever once said (or even thought) that I am a victim. I never ever ever once said (or even thought) I am not to blame for the money I have stuck on there.

So stop lecturing already about me not really being a victim. I have never said or even implied that I was.




This really isn't the thread for that and wasn't anything that I had said or implied at all. All I am saying is that the people who are publicly declaring they believe the funds are secure can easily show how convinced they are of that by purchasing the lock $$ at ludicrously low prices. They aren't doing that. Which is my only point. All of the other stuff you are going on about is nothing I was discussing at all. You should consider bringing that up in another thread perhaps although I guess it's too late now. Still, it's really misplaced in here.



I don't hate the pros who took the money and I never said that I did. But I can showcase that they don't necessarily believe what they say when they declare that they believe the funds are safe. I don't think they really do. That's ALL this thread is about.

It's not about me or my funds or why I have some money on there or your friend with $20k who just couldn't stay away or your beliefs that certain players should be criticized more harshly. This just isn't the place for that.

I think Lock pro's don't really have the kind of confidence in the funds there that they proclaim. That's all I have been saying. You have made some rather bold and incorrect assumptions about me, my money, and all sorts of randomly weird stuff that you are conjuring up in your own head.

OP is:
[ ] clever
[ ] humorous
[ ] helpful
[x] simply adding to the clutter

Grunching a little here. Couldn't it be reasonable for someone that is insisting funds are safe to *not* want to buy your funds?

Jesus Christ could OP be anymore self-absorbed and pompous? Delete this thread please it's an embarrassment