I truly feel that there is something getting lost in the message here. Both from the players communicating to Lock about their concerns...as well as Lock's ability to describe things in a correct and accurate manner. Because this bit about, "transferred funds cannot be cashed out" can't possibly be correct if it means what I think it means.

The players are reacting so negatively to this under the assumption that receiving a transfer means the money is lost forever...except for the purposes of playing on the site.


Let's go through the following scenario. Please provide an answer for both hypotheticals.

Player A has $0 in his account...and then receives a transfer from a friend for $1,000. His account now stands at $1,000. Player A now plays with that money on 8 tables of $.50/1, for several hours a day, for 50 days in a row. He racks up 300k hands or something.

Hypothetical 1: He is also not a very good player and at the end of all of this play, his account balance shows $850. He has lost money although not much. He decides he sucks at poker and wants to quit forever. So he requests a cashout. Is he eligible to receive his $850?

Hypothetical 2: He wins decently and now has $4,000 in his account. How much is he allowed to cashout. Or must he still keep a minimum of $1,000 in his account at all times that he is never able to remove.

Shane - Just to be clear. The way your support is phrasing things like, "transferred funds are not eligible to be cashed out", we as the player-base take that to mean that Player A would not be allowed to cashout at all. If he kept playing and got his account up to $1,002 then he would only be allowed to cashout $2 when he decides to quit...even though he has played 300k hands.

This is why players are freaking out about this. Me included.

I truly hope this is just a misinterpretation of what you guys are trying to say from your end. That you are intending to say one thing but it is just coming out the wrong way. But if that's the case, you and your organization need to phrase things much better than you have. Because pretty much everyone on the players' side is interpreting it this way.

If it is not a misinterpretation, in other words....if he seriously is only allowed to cashout $2 then please say so...and we can develop the conversation from there.

Your customers deserve to know. The answers provided via email by support are vague and difficult to interpret. And we are still frustrated. I hope that these hypotheticals and this opportunity to explain the transfer policy helps us all communicate better with each other so that we can move the dialogue forward.

Very simply put by Bob, and there should be a simple, straight-forward, consistent answer to this question. I can't believe it has yet to be resolved.

Make it easier on everyone by answering please (Shane/Joseph/Lock). If you answer here, it'll stop your customer support from having to respond over and over to each individual inquiry. Not that those responses have even given us ANY indication of your answer whatsoever anyway.

I am a little confused about Shane's post on his role as only support. Does what you say about the p2p transfer fall under support or policy? Or maybe both and he does not answer questions about policy anymore. Thus this is not something that he will answer now.

I dunno, those questions require rubbing more than a couple brain cells together. Let's start with a simpler scenario, since they claim to not have a playthrough requirement.

Player A is busto. Player A's friend sends him $1000 via P2P. Player A runs it up to $5000. Can he cashout $4000 max or $5000 max?

Well he definitely cannot cashout $5,000 max. Lock cannot comment on whether or not he can cashout the other 4k. Sometimes it's no, sometimes it's yes. It's a case to case basis for them. That's the simple answer right now.

Support is offering answers about the transfer stuff...albeit confusing ones. So I figured Shane could clarify for us perhaps as well. But perhaps it would be better if somebody else from lock handled this one. I really don't care who from lock responds as long as the answer is clear and properly addresses the question.

But it ISN'T so clear cut. Here's a scenario I'd like people who think it's clear-cut to consider:

Player A has $0. Player B transfers $1000 to Player A. Player A loses a little and now has $400 left, but wants to multi-table and needs more $. So Player B transfers Player A an additional $1000, resulting in Player A having $1400. If Player A wins $1600 in his next session and currently has $3000, what is the amount he can/cannot withdraw? Will Lock say, the transferred amount was $2,000 so he can't withdraw $2,000? If they say that, then ever since he had $1400, he needed a minimum of $600 profit just to break even at that point. And if they say, well, it's $1,000 because that's the most recent transfer that he won from, then wouldn't people just make sure to get transferred a small amount as their most recent transaction for Lock to use as deriving profit from?

How can you assume or infer which transferred $ was used to derive his profit from?

The fact that Lock cannot even clarify their transfer policy (and create a policy that is reasonable), is just either disgustingly incompetent or shows they are broke

+1 to the initial post.

Here goes sanity. A former Lock lover back from the dead, who's read up quite a bit on all this stuff and thinks he sees something to offer up. This is just my opinion on the subject, but at least it's informed. And yes - the fact that Lock sells for almost .3 in the P2P thread right now is probably the most glaring "poll" of what people think of Lock these days.

Lock's statement on transfers is thus: "...crack down on accounts abusing the player transfers to bulk withdraw funds with absolutely no play on the accounts...". If you take that at face value (...waits to hear laugh track), then the example quoted above should be confident (as confident as you can be considering) that he should be able to withdraw the full $3,000 (if he is able to do it all in one check - I know WU's were $2k max per toss at one point...not sure what limits are in place on different accounts these days). Now, he might not get it for 6 months, but as long as the guy is playing, then it would seem he would be okay with cashing out the $3k.

Lock's failure is as it has always been - communication. Sure - they've done some really stupid things along the way as well. But as I've said many moons ago, if they simply woke up one morning and decided to own their issues, they would. They would attack the issue and be on top of it publicly. And as a result, perhaps their money would be worth a little more on the P2P market. The fact that people have to use P2P transfers if they have any hope of seeing real money is Lock's own fault to begin with. So as long as you aren't just doing it to "launder money" as it's been put (really - aren't there far easier and vastly more secure ways to achieve that in this day in age?) and are playing that kind of volume, I don't see why they would summarily stop your cashout request if you've made a transfer recently.

If Lock simply did the PR blitz and attempted to own the problems they've created, they'd solve a lot of them. Even getting their value back around 50 cents on the dollar would probably be enough to save at least a few folks from having to play the waiting game on checks and WU's. And at this point, like Old Man Potter in "It's a Wonderful Life" when he guaranteed .5 on anyone's money that was in the old Bailey Building and Loan bank when it got ran on, I think some would cut their losses and walk away with half. It's better than nothing, after all.

yes or no. do you think they would make that policy if they were broke?

^^ Oh I'm not defending Lock...haha. That ship sailed long ago. And admittedly I am getting a bit tired and ready to sleep - but, to answer your question - if they were broke, as in completely out of money, then I guess they would halt everything. In the case of the man's question though, I would think his request would go through as he laid it out, and as I've read from the stuff the Lock folks are saying. When he got the funds, of course, is anyone's guess, however.

Deleted a bit of a derail at the poster's request, and I also took out some replies to him that no longer made sense. If anyone has had a post removed that was important and still makes sense with the derail gone, LMK and I'll restore it if it seems appropriate.

As this article states...

http://betamu.org/news/lock-poker-pa...dal-mass-theft

...the vault is empty!

Time to move on!!

given we now know that Lock is defrauding players through p2p transfers, it is time to take action imo. Their stance on p2p xfer is clear player fraud and we need to take action now.

i suggest for one that we give an ultimatum to lock. if they do not create a play through requirement to withdraw funds (or some alternative measure that will allow you to cash out) and return player funds by a certain date, we as players will forfeit all financial information we have on lock relating to bank accounts, transfers, checks, Western Union, Skrill, etc. to the government and allow them to prosecute the CEO and others in charge*

*by extension, pros who recruited other players will be firmly liable based on their paychecks etc. maybe this will incentivize them to actually do something

ohhh i kinda like this. have no idea how possible it is

Take your other ideas about lock's issues and what you want to do about it elsewhere please. There are plenty of other threads for other lock discussion. This thread is about their transfer policy and an attempt to reach out to them.

Moments ago from my live chat with Lock Support.

That answer makes absolutely no sense at all.

Shane, Can you or somebody else from Lock please answer my questions in this thread. It would go a long way towards establishing a more positive image.

So why is there even an option for player transfers if when you receive it you cant cash the money out? do they think we like just playing for fun and dont care about eventually getting our money?

doody - Nobody knows. It's very confusing and very strange.

Even if they were going to rob their own players in such a way which is what it sounds like they are doing, why would they have their support people directly say that? They could just lie.

This is why I am still holding out hope that it is a matter of really terrible communication within their organization and to their customers. And why I'm trying to get that cleared up here. I have noticed that some other posters on here have not interpreted this correctly either. So it actually is possible to somehow take this a different way...even though most of us see the statement of "you can never cashout your funds" as being really clear.

But them directly stating that that is their policy doesn't make sense either. They can just lie and stall as they do whatever robbery instead of saying that to their customers in the emails. What they are saying about the transfers and the reasoning behind it makes absolutely no sense at all no matter how you look at it.

Shane, you're viewing this thread at this very moment. Could you please state the current transfer policy?

He just popped up to drop in a nothing post because people were talking about putting a warning at the top of the forum. See you in a few days. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

If anyone is still buying Lock funds, ask them why.