Who else thinks that the latest update actually did install Fair Play, but Lock's software devs are just so incompetent that they couldn't get it to work?

We'll never know, they're too incompetent to post Patch Notes so we could check, that's for sure

Lol, very true. Last time they published release notes was November 10th, 2010...

or too scared lol. If they don't post any patch notes and something goes wrong others either won't know or will be in the same boat of confusion.


I really would like to know what this "dev" team looks like and what is actually going on behind the scenes...but of course that won't happen.

It seems like the "dev" team is always working on things and getting information passed along...but nothing really happens or when it does it's always delayed. Even simple things.

But Starspro's original post was simply a statement of fact regarding the value of Lock money that also parenthetically mentioned that his post had been deleted explaining why it hadn't been seen by others. It wasn't a question asking why it had been deleted as your sarcastic derail seems to imply.

There's your answer.

Thank you sir well put

Wouldn't surprise me if this blows up in their face.

I'm already helping out 2 of my students get their money off revolution and onto ACR.

LOL

We were all thinking it, glad someone found some good pics of the dev team.

Shane, why would any competent person who plays poker to make money play on Revolution anymore?

If I can sit at a profitable 6max table with a couple of fish mixed in there on another site, or I can play on Revolution with 5 other competent regs and pass money back and forth with them, which site do you think I'll choose to play on if I want to make money?

If this is necessary, then why is live poker still thriving where the fish play vs. the regs everyday for higher stakes? The beauty of online poker is the beginning players can get their feet wet playing this game for as little as pennies until they learn the game.

This is a huge mistake and a deal breaker for me and thousands of other players that want to make money playing poker. I really hope that you'll reconsider this decision, and continue to let the beginners learn the game online at the micro stakes as I did.

Good post, hopefully they read it

Great post, that's why most people don't think they are doing this for the reasons they are giving. If they were they would have set it up giving the new player an option to play on beginners tables or the tables with everyone else. I see nothing wrong with beginner tables but when you don't give the new player the option or even educate them about the fair play program is flat wrong.

For a site that should really be looking to expand their ROW player base with the US slowly legalizing poker state by state, they seem to be doing the opposite. I mean if your a winning player from the ROW why would you in your right mind continue to play on lock? Poker is about making the most money you can and that means you try to find your biggest edge. When picking a site to play on as a winning player you try to find a site that will give you the best chance to make the most money and lock is just straight up telling these winning players you will have no edge here you might want to pick a different site to play on.

Any pro will tell you for the most part that the reason they got to where they got today was because they were able to play in soft cash games.
Even today most pros won't play in a cash game unless they know they have a good edge. They understand it makes no sense to just sit there and play vs guys with all the same skills.

From the numbers we look at the softness extends well into the middle group and isnt exclusive to the lowest group.

LOL

I dont know how that can be lol, I mean just look at the number of times the Pros and regs get called fish in here.

Of course there are fish regs, theyre RB guys, and they will be in the top teir as well, but thats not my point.

I was laughing at your "numbers". The KPI numbers were susposedly fantastic with the segregation, your liquidity numbers are fantastic, cashout times are improving based upon Ms. Celo's crystal ball, traffic numbers are fantastic, new sign ups are fantastic, the ratio of fish in the middle group will be plentlyful.

Theres always "numbers" you guys look at im just not sure anyone over there has a clue what they mean, nor are they ever right. There will probably be one number that is pretty clear though, that even the Lock team will understand: The significant drop in traffic that this will most likely cause.

Its an obvious way to kill 200nl and above like Ive said before, or turn the games that do run there into rake fests. Hopefully that combined with the extra rake the Fair Play will create will allow you to improve cashout times, which is the only way Lock stays alive period.

The traffic on Rev. higher than 100nl wont withstand this and you know it. The ultimate goal is to have the BE regs drop down to 100 or 50nl where they can again BE and collect RB, and have 200 and up games rarely run and those regs leave. Then you dont have to worry about large cashouts ect. all the while creating more and more rake.

Its pretty simple to see the forest through the trees here. Ill be shocked if 200nl games and up run with fish on any consistant basis once this is in, I can only hope that somehow Im wrong.

I agree for the most part that will be the result: less games. I mean, it can by definition only create less games, it can never create more or equal, that's for sure (unless this system somehow attracts more players, but i don't see that happening since regs who understand it are semi-neutral to it like me, or hate it, none would ever "love" this: there's simply no reason to). The fish don't even know about the system, so they won't get attracted by it either, unless you can somehow advertise this network as a fishy network in the long run.

Shane I think your missing my point. Most winning players that are put into this top group will be cashing out their rolls and taking their business elsewhere. I mean you guys are running a business and are trying to make the most amount of money that you can which is fine, but I think you guys will find this move might make you guys more money in the short term but long term that's a big question. Most good poker players think of poker like running a business just like you guys run your business, and they are going to play on the site that makes them the most amount of money. It's no different then you getting an offer to be a rep for poker stars for more then your making now you would leave in a second for that new job that pays you more.

You keep talking about this middle group like where all in it, but what about the top group which 1/3 of the players on the network will be in. That means breakeven players will be in the top group because I won't believe for a second that 1/3 of the networks players beat the game.

Also this is how i see it turning out in a few months. A good amount of regs will decide to take their business to another site which means the lucky break even players that get put into the middle group will slowly get put into the top group. This is all my opinion and you can look at it how ever you want but this just seems the most logical.

I did LOL at those pictures.

As for Fair Play, a decent point was brought up before about new players who deposit and then lose it right away to superior players with a lot more experience or knowledge. That might not seem fair to the new player or for the poker ecology overall. However, that player decided to put the money in and the winning player has every right to play the game vs that opponent. Both players are going into that figuring they are playing on some poker room vs any possible opponent. As for the poker ecology, it doesn't really matter how quickly that player loses the money or to who(except Lock loses some possible $ when it goes too quickly). To try and set ways to make the player think he/she has a better shot than is really possible is kind of wrong. It should at least be noted for all the players what category they fit into. If not you are just preying on new depositors and tricking them into believing the game of poker is different. They probably wouldn't know they were in a "special" category and they might continue to put on more money believing they are playing at the Lock poker room overall, but are actually being segregated without their knowledge.

I wouldn't like it if was playing at a live poker room and then later found out that the waiting lists were actually being sent to segregated tables based on players. I figure I am playing a certain limit at a poker room, not being segregated in any way. This is the idea of poker that everyone has in their mind. If a change like that is made, it needs to be known. Players can choose not to play certain limits, and sure at times it would be best for them to not play certain players if they want to keep their money longer...but if someone puts a collar on them I think it needs to at least be well known.

So I do think logically that it needs to at least be known on the network that there is segregation and what class you will be in. For the people who don't come on here and just choose to play at a poker room, they should at least know if there is a big change like that and what kind of players they will be playing now. They have an idea that they will be playing all players in a poker room, but that will no longer be true.

That's just what I was thinking...maybe it doesn't matter a whole lot. I am sure the highest class players would like to know if they have been segregated, but they are simply choosing to come play at a certain poker room anyways.


As for what Shane just said about there still being a soft player pool on Lock for the middle region...
Ya, there will still be some profitable play for certain players. I think everyone can agree that it will be bad for the poker ecology at Lock if a lot of players leave though. Bad for the network, bad for players. Everyone will hurt from it...assuming players continue on at Lock/Revolution.

I am disappointed in the Software development and lack of information regarding it. Is there at least a statement on where it's at? It was something that was promised, along with a lot of other things, when Lock left Merge and took over this network. Since then, Lock/Revolution has faced a lot of problems and seemed to not be capable of handling a network.

It doesn't seem like a good move to bring out this Fair Play Technology, when so many other aspects of Lock are hurting. There should at least be a great logical explanation when bringing this out...I get it's at least partly for money, but if there are other reasons they should be more accepted. Lock could have cut corners with other things.

You claim it's an answer for dealing with new depositors. Great software and fixing other issues would bring in the new depositors and drive up a large player pool. That would be a much greater, and more guaranteed, solution to that problem.

Also, how much time was needed in developing/discussing this fair Play Technology? Not looking for an exact number, just a roundabout figure. I doubt it can be given...but if Lock doesn't want to lose all of it's players now(which is starting to be a very real possibility) it needs to make better statements on some of these things. No BS, just straight forward. If no answer can be given...there should be some accepted reason for why that is. Like why software development is taking so long, as it was promised much sooner, and what does the future look like for it?

i really don't know how anyone could be so disingenuous...i mean is it possible that shane actually believes the nonsense he's spewing?

At any rate, whatever. it's pretty clear that those in lock management only care about short term profits. so we, the community are going to have to prove to them that this is -ev for them, even in the short term - this is what we should be focusing on, rather than trying to do like 1st term obama and work with republicans who only know the word "no".

in the meantime, idk if he even knows how to play poker, but i'd like to take this opportunity to challenge shane to hu4rollz, because i think it would be really helpful for him to walk a mile in our shoes and know what it's like to have it matter whether or not you win. i suppose we'll probably have to play on a more legit network tho, since i'm guessing him and i would be prohibited from playing with each other on revolution.

public relations employees can't express their own opinions/let it affect the job they need to do for their company. i would say if i were hiring someone to do pr i would see how well they could communicate something they did not believe in and still sound convincing and successfully relay the company's objectives.

direct the hate in the right area imo. like are u guys the ones cussing out the at&t or time warner customer rep because the company incorrectly billed you twice last month?


that said, shane could you tell ms. lawson that she is gonna bring revolution crashing down to nothingness because she does not hire enough consultants that actually know poker and can bring a balanced, knowledgable input to the table.

as much as i enjoyed reaping the benefits of ronin, i think even you admitted there was major miscalculation there. using separate example (since obv u need to express the company's stance that this fair play is a wise decision). time to kick out the advisors and replace imo before ronin 2 destroys the network.


one clear example is the 1/3 thing. like citizen said, if indeed the entire player pool is examined and its simply 1/3 are fish, 1/3 are meh, and 1/3 are "winners" then lolllll

there is no way that 1/3 of the network are net winners. hell you guys dont even call it simply winners. i believe these are the "extreme sharks" that u need to protect the fish against so they dont lose too fast. these nitty rakeback players are gonna pwn them way too fast, something must be done.

^above example is why some of the advisors need to be get the firing.

Whatever u get in salary Shane u should go to your boss and demand at least double as much.
In the other Lock thread there where a poster who claimed Lock was the worst managed company in the world I dont agree, there are a company in Vietnam who r worse, but apart from that hes right.
How u can work for them is incredible imo,I really hope u get a fantastic salary hence all the lies and half truths U have to communicate on a daily level.
When u can buy lock money for 0,5 , u dont have to be Einstein to realize that they are close to busto.
If I had any money on there I would cash out ASAP ( I know ASAP is three months).
But gl to all the players from USA I really hope U can join Stars again soon.

I find it hilarious that in the time of win rates being as small as they've EVER been, they decide they need "fair play."