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we have no idea what is going on
We do know what is going on. People (ROW players) haven't been getting paid for *months* and not a single valid excuse for that has been given. Every other poker site is paying me just fine within days. It is clear that the site doesn't have the money on hand to pay players right now. They have also demonstrated no valid reason for why that is the case or for how they are going to resolve it. The excuses they have given have not lived up to scrutiny and we are clearly being lied to and being led on. *That* sums up what is going on. Edit: And if you think I am wrong then buy my money at 35 cents on the dollar, which I'll happily sell. If you aren't willing to take that bet it means that you think the site will go under more than twice as often as it will recover. How long should you wait till you report them? When the site is going to recover only 5% of the time? Lol
Let's say you walked into your bank tomorrow and they told you sorry we can't give you any money. How many days should you wait so you are not "out of line" before contacting the authorities? I would wait maybe one or two, tops. It has been a lot longer than that in this case because Lock indeed had a history of delays before ultimately making payments. But this delay is much longer than usual and it is clear this time that we're very unlikely to get paid (look at market place value for an indicator).
BTW I don't care at all about the Portugal trip. They are spewing money in so many areas as a business (guarantees not met, 100%+ rake back, likely having to pay large money for payment processing to US players + getting money seized) that that trip is just a drop in the bucket.
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its not like if wcgrider outted the scum that he's hurting hundreds of people and causing them direct pain and causing them to lose thousands of dollars lol.
I have about 15k or so on there so I am hurting myself here more than most.
I see it a lot differently than you. I think by forcing the site to shut down you are actually *saving* people money. Each time a fish deposits onto the site their money is being stolen. By getting this site shut down sooner I am preventing them from having their money stolen. Also, if the site was backed against the wall by the authorities I am pretty sure they would pony up the money (if available) before letting it come to that. I seriously doubt that you're hurting players as much as you think when you attempt getting their site shut down. The "systemic damage" as you are calling it is only because caused here by one party - the one that didn't have player funds on hand (and hell they don't even need nearly all of them available, probably half would do the trick and it would be business as usual).
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the first is through attacking the pros and getting info
That accomplished absolutely nothing for getting player's money back. All it did was reduce the amount of money fish are going to deposit (because some pros have stopped their promotion). I like that achievement but would like to do a better job at it and have the site itself stop all promotion (if they are indeed not solvent).
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the next is filing a formal comprehensive complaint to the gaming commission based in Curacao or wherever
That will do absolutely nothing. I already tried talking to UB and FTP regulators and it was a 100% waste of time. Eventually FTP's did pull the license but all that did was accomplish the same thing I am talking about here, minus the justice to the owners/operators.
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unravel the entire online poker community.
What? They already know we're playing poker on this site. They just might not know that we're being defrauded out of a lot of money.
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you really think the US is going to be put her in prison?
Maybe. Bitar is likely going to prison, for example.
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little bit more logic and realize the systemic damage something like this does
To me part of that "system damage" is caused by poker players routinely being a bunch of push overs that let people run them over in any situation, as long as it might earn them a few bucks.
Last edited by Kardnel; 05-07-2013 at 11:20 PM.