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Originally Posted by RICHI8
Of course most schools teach Java and C++! Universities are breeding grounds to supply corporations with code monkeys.
What I was saying is that every idiot on earth can program in Python these days. There is no badge of honor to say you program in Python. Every free and non-free resource teaches you Python to start with. Now you can take a 101 class and you "know" how to "program" in Python.
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Twitter's Rails application didn't fail because of Ruby or Ruby on Rails. It failed because they had a bunch of "hot****" Ivy league grads writing Java-flavored Ruby code. As proof of this, before Twitter settled on Java they tried Scala out first.
ad-hominem much? here's the background on Jack Dorsey:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle-ellipse_problem
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Scala, while much faster than Ruby, also didn't work for them as well. Why? A bunch of Java-flavored Scala. And those two languages at least share the same VM! It doesn't matter which language you're writing in. If you aren't following its idioms then you're sure to produce crappy software.
This is an absurd argument to make. The fact they are both on the JVM has absolutely nothing at all to do with the run-time of the languages. The fact they are on the same run-time, and on a run-time optimized for Java specifically, means that by definition, any language written on the JVM, whether it is JRuby, Scala, or Clojure, will be slower than Java in many cases and will never be able to out-perform native Java code. This is exactly like arguing that Python is slower than C even though it is ported on the same archetecture, and OMG, is compiles to byte-code, so why is Python slower than C?
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Kudos to you for being a Lisper. Nobody can hate on that. We can just find you annoying. I'm a huge fan and grateful of what Lisp and disciples of the language have brought to the world of computing.
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Originally Posted by RICHI8
You're going to cut down a programmer when comparing him to another because of their choice of a language? Are you off your rocker?
You didn't read the follow-up to the conversation. Candybar didn't do the initial cut-down.
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Originally Posted by RICHI8
Before I inevitably get bashed for sharing my thoughts which are sure to rub some people the wrong way, something we all say but seem to forget when these language vs. language debates happen is that you should choose the right tool for the job. Even in that Paul Graham post that was shared earlier, he clearly loves Lisp and used Lisp to build his first start up because that's what he and his partner were good at. That's what made sense for them.
"Best Tool for the Job" usually obscures the fact that you are simply using the language / tool you are comfortable using. No one actually ever does the research to discover the "Best Tool" if such a thing even exists. Imagine the person who is normally used to using PHP or Python: someone who is very intelligent sees their project and says the "Best Tool" is Gambit Scheme. Do you honestly believe someone is going to learn Scheme and work on tweaking the pre-compiled C pointers?
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Something happened to the people who create the programming languages that we use. They ran into a problem that they didn't think other languages addressed well. This is the reason they were motivated to create a language. Lots of languages have overlapping areas where they can be used. Can I model my application's domain in Node.js and JavaScript? Sure, but then I'd be using one of the most confused object models in existence. I could also use Ruby to do Functional Programming to analyze tons of raw data, but we all know that's a mistake.
Yes and No. I'm not sure what the initial motives are, but I suspect that many times it was to just create a language they enjoyed working with. Matz doesn't do Ruby full-time, even.
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Originally Posted by RICHI8
I think your posts are all trying to make different points.
No, I simply admonished the poster for pounding the drum of religion and then backing up his religion with half-baked truths and outright lies.
I then pointed out that, despite his world-view, many people look down upon him as he looks down upon others. I was not saying I look down and honestly, I'm partly ashamed of using Lisp because the language is rarer and the community at large is irritating. Using Lisp is like wearing a badge that says "I'm really ****ing weird and proud of it."