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Old 06-04-2012, 08:40 PM   #1
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Looking for Some Career Advice

Basically I would like to get some career advice. I'm 43 y/o and became interested in programming several years back, primarily due to working on software projects, first as a materials management guy, then later as a project analyst.

After I got interested in programming, in the course of completing my BS in Operations Technology (as a continuing ed student), I completed several programming courses, then 2 years ago completed a Java programming certificate online.

For the past 1.5 years I've worked half-time as a purchasing agent, and half-time as a developer. (Plus lots of extra hours doing research/reading.) There is only one full-time developer on staff, and he mostly just keeps legacy code running. I've been fortunate to have the freedom to develop some new apps using Java (Spring framework) and PL/SQL, with some JSP tags for the front-end stuff, but mostly just feeding JSON to Dojo datagrids. (Almost everything I've done could essentially be considered a report of some sort.) I spend countless hours trying to figure out where the data is for these reports because our databases are huge (thousands of tables) and not documented well at all. (Legacy systems from a start-up Biotech company.)

My concern is that I'm sure this isn't how developers work in a "normal" business environment. We don't have any official mechanism in place for testing. I'm still learning on my own how a professional actually goes about debuging code. The full-time developer doesn't have much time to mentor me, or really to do much more than keep old code running. He would love to have me on full-time, but his boss doesn't want my salary on his budget. My entire salary at this point is still paid by the purchasing dept.

Since I really want to program full-time, it's probably time to move on. However, I'm fairly nervous about interviewing, as most of my experience is in what I believe to be a non-standard environment. Plus I've been with this company for 15 years, and again I'm 43, which is not standard for a new guy in this field.

Another issue is that most of the software job openings I see posted are looking for senior level guys. I believe I'm more suited to a lower-level position where I could learn how to work with other developers in a more professional setting and polish up my skills, which I'm sure are rough around the edges. I also have terrible habits of calling everything "thingies" and "doo-dads" and not being able to speak the proper lingo very well. Hopefully this is mostly due to working on projects by myself.

So anyway, I guess I'm wondering how to proceed from here, and where to focus my energy for the best chance of success moving on to a career in programming?

I had also started my own web project to show prospective employers, but put it on hold because I started spending my free time focusing on stuff for work. I'm debating now whether I should also go back to working on my project site, or if the better path is to continue using that time for work related stuff, despite it being clear a full-time opportunity is not likely.
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:48 AM   #2
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Re: Looking for Some Career Advice

Sounds like you're just nervous more than anything. I would suggest applying for any job you think you might like to do. If the company interviews you and doesn't want to hire you, that's their problem. If you don't get anywhere after 5 interviews, maybe set your sights a little lower. Repeat until someone hires you.
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Old 06-05-2012, 03:18 AM   #3
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Re: Looking for Some Career Advice

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Originally Posted by Jbrochu View Post
Another issue is that most of the software job openings I see posted are looking for senior level guys. I believe I'm more suited to a lower-level position where I could learn how to work with other developers in a more professional setting and polish up my skills, which I'm sure are rough around the edges.
Most software job postings that you'll ever see are for senior level positions because those take forever to fill. With the economy the way it is, recruiters looking for entry level hires can snap up as many new CS graduates as they have budget.
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Old 06-05-2012, 03:21 PM   #4
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Re: Looking for Some Career Advice

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I had also started my own web project to show prospective employers, but put it on hold because I started spending my free time focusing on stuff for work. I'm debating now whether I should also go back to working on my project site, or if the better path is to continue using that time for work related stuff, despite it being clear a full-time opportunity is not likely.
You should clearly be spending free time working on the project site.

If you were located near me, I'd interview you. :P What specifically were you doing in terms of purchasing agent?
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:36 PM   #5
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Re: Looking for Some Career Advice

I manage all the service contracts for 300+ laboratory instruments (negotiating renewals, in some cases scheduling maintenance), and then mostly just cut one-off purchase orders for chemicals and biological reagents. You could probably guess we don't have too much going on in purchasing now by the fact my boss lets me spend half my time coding for another dept.

I used to get involved in a lot of projects when I was the materials supervisor, and especially when I was a project analyst, but that stuff mostly dried up when we changed our business model a few years back.

So you think the project website is more important than completing more things for the workplace? The advice I’ve gotten from friends has been split about 50:50 in this regard, so I’m curious about your thought process behind it.

I’m located in New Hampshire and work in Mass. Even if we are not near each other, would you by chance in a month or two be willing to put me through a mock interview and give me some pointers for improvement?

Just writing out my post made some things fairly obvious, one being I need to spend a few months preparing myself for the interviewing process by getting back to the java basics and making sure I have the lingo down and can answer the basic questions without sounding like an idiot.
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:40 PM   #6
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Re: Looking for Some Career Advice

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Sounds like you're just nervous more than anything. I would suggest applying for any job you think you might like to do. If the company interviews you and doesn't want to hire you, that's their problem. If you don't get anywhere after 5 interviews, maybe set your sights a little lower. Repeat until someone hires you.
I'm definitely nervous. I haven't had a job interview in 15 years! (Well except for very informal ones internally when getting promoted from within.)
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:04 PM   #7
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Re: Looking for Some Career Advice

Working on side project:

1. Let's you learn something current/relevent, assuming you're not doing something legacy.

2. Shows you take initiative to learn outside of work.

Both would be massive pluses to me as someone who hires developers.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:11 PM   #8
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Re: Looking for Some Career Advice

You might want to look into a MSCS since than companies could pick you up for internships and co-ops.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:08 PM   #9
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Re: Looking for Some Career Advice

What you need is a way to improve your resume in a short amount of time.

It'll be easy -- just spend a little time familiarizing yourself with some new tools/technology/whatever. The trick is to pick skills that are very marketable and also similar to what you're familiar with.

Fortunately, all the skills you listed are very, very similar to a lot of the most relevant current technologies. A few ideas:

1. You use Dojo and JSON so you know something about Javascript. Spend a little time getting familiar with jQuery b/c it gets used everywhere. It's easy to learn and the documentation at jquery.com is outstanding.

2. If you aren't familiar with MySQL, download a copy and start getting to know it. Another easy transition since you use Oracle.

3. PHP is very similar to JSP but is much more marketable. It won't take you long at all to pick up. The documentation on PHP.net is outstanding -- every function is clearly explained with examples.

4. Read up a little about HTML5 and some of its new features (they're very good). This site is great for that: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/

5. Mobile development is the hot thing right now. Jquery Mobile is a framework for building touch based web apps with Javascript, HTML5 and CSS. It doesn't really even require a ton of experience with jQuery. If you've got some familiarity with building web sites, you can have a decent looking mobile web app in a couple of hours. No joke.

You definitely don't have to become an expert on any of these. Just pick up a working knowledge so that when you come across something unfamiliar, it just becomes a matter of looking up the right function in the documentation.

Your web project would be a great place to learn/try out whatever skill you decide to pick up. IMO, proving that you have a skill is 10x more effective than just writing it on a resume.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:56 PM   #10
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Re: Looking for Some Career Advice

Thank you for the detailed response.

I'm thinking about going back to my project, but instead of continuing with Java, I'm considering re-writing the whole thing with one of the scripting languages like Python, Ruby, or PHP. I'm leaning toward Python only because I'm currently taking the Udacity Web Engineering class and teaching myself Python in the process.

I've used some other js libraries besides Dojo. In my project app I was using Prototype and script.aculo.us. I'm only using Dojo at work because that's what they want me to use.

Also, I was using MySQL for the db in my project. I'll either continue to use that, or learn the option that comes with the Google App Engine if I move the project to Python and host it on GAE.

I've not worked on anything for mobile development. Would I be better off knowing a little bit about a lot of different things, or know fewer things but with a comprehensive knowledge?

Right now I'm tweaking my resume and honing up on interview questions, and my plan is to start looking for full time work near the end of August.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:05 PM   #11
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Re: Looking for Some Career Advice

I would definitely consider doing an MSc in your spare time (part-time) or full time if you can support yourself for the year it takes to do it.

I am in the process of doing one at the moment and have learnt an unbelievable amount or marketable skills (along with the proper lingo!!!)

look at uni's in your local area or distance learning over the net. A qualification will show your initiative as well.
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Old 06-07-2012, 11:12 PM   #12
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Re: Looking for Some Career Advice

Regarding an MSCS, I may do that in a few years. Right now I feel like I need to actually put in as much time as possible actually coding.

Hopefully I can demonstrate initiative with what I've done the last 10 years. Since turning 32 I've completed the following:

- APICS CPIM
- AS Materials Management from Northeastern University
- BS Operations Technology from Northeastern University (summa cum laude and Presidents Award for highest GPA in my major)
- Certificate in Java Programming from California State University

I think book learning is great, and one of the things I love about programming is you constantly have to learn new things, but at some point I need some on-the-job experience.
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:49 AM   #13
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Re: Looking for Some Career Advice

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Originally Posted by Jbrochu View Post
I’m located in New Hampshire and work in Mass. Even if we are not near each other, would you by chance in a month or two be willing to put me through a mock interview and give me some pointers for improvement?
I live in New Hampshire and work in Mass as well.

I'm in IT contract/some perm staffing and am pretty familiar with Java openings in the local area (have 3 devs currently on a project in N. MA).

We do mostly mid-sr level contract jobs, but for one of my accounts we placed someone who (by my best guess) is around 35-37 into a junior level (SQL dev) job who had about 7-10 years total SQL development experience, but not in a "best practices" enterprise environment. These types of roles with a lot of training do exist from time to time.

PM me.
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:37 AM   #14
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Re: Looking for Some Career Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbrochu View Post

I'm thinking about going back to my project, but instead of continuing with Java, I'm considering re-writing the whole thing with one of the scripting languages like Python, Ruby, or PHP. I'm leaning toward Python only because I'm currently taking the Udacity Web Engineering class and teaching myself Python in the process.
In that case, I'd say go with Python. I'm a big fan of scripting languages for a lot of reasons. You can't go wrong with one of those three.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbrochu View Post
I've used some other js libraries besides Dojo. In my project app I was using Prototype and script.aculo.us. I'm only using Dojo at work because that's what they want me to use.
Gotcha. My advice about jQuery is solely because it's the most widely used javascript library, and more demand = greater marketability. Actually, scratch that. The other reason is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbrochu View Post
I've not worked on anything for mobile development.
...jQuery Mobile, because it makes mobile development so much easier. If you're familiar with HTML5, CSS, and JS, developing for mobile is a very easy transition using JQM.

My partiality to JQM is based on a few things:
1. It's incredibly easy to use.
2. Apps made with jQuery/JQM can be converted to native with PhoneGap (free, open source). PhoneGap is approved by Apple for the app store.
3. It's being aggressively developed and constantly improving.

From a career perspective, it may not necessarily hold you back if you aren't well versed in it, but if you are, it can be a huge boost over your competition. The reason for that is simple -- the mobile platform is hugely popular, companies are jumping on board, and all indications are that it isn't a passing fad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbrochu View Post
Would I be better off knowing a little bit about a lot of different things, or know fewer things but with a comprehensive knowledge?
That's a tough one.

Although I have no evidence to support it, I'd argue that the most marketable skill set is a combination of the skills that are most frequently combined for projects within a given field. For example, it's hard to imagine a SAAS company that runs PHP hiring a developer who doesn't know anything about MySQL.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:02 AM   #15
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Re: Looking for Some Career Advice

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Originally Posted by Jbrochu View Post
Thank you for the detailed response.

I'm thinking about going back to my project, but instead of continuing with Java, I'm considering re-writing the whole thing with one of the scripting languages like Python, Ruby, or PHP. I'm leaning toward Python only because I'm currently taking the Udacity Web Engineering class and teaching myself Python in the process.

I've used some other js libraries besides Dojo. In my project app I was using Prototype and script.aculo.us. I'm only using Dojo at work because that's what they want me to use.

Also, I was using MySQL for the db in my project. I'll either continue to use that, or learn the option that comes with the Google App Engine if I move the project to Python and host it on GAE.

I've not worked on anything for mobile development. Would I be better off knowing a little bit about a lot of different things, or know fewer things but with a comprehensive knowledge?

Right now I'm tweaking my resume and honing up on interview questions, and my plan is to start looking for full time work near the end of August.
Sounds good, also a nice entry point for interviews...i.e. why did you pick Python and not JAVA which you work with...to learn more duh
Python also seems good given you have at least some background in Biotech from a CV point of view and Python is really good with sciency stuff.
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