To be fair, neither did yours or his.

I mean I understand taking a shot at a poster you don't like, but since we're all here to learn, why don't you tell me why i'm wrong?

Why not just ignore it? My opinion isn't even limited to me - I don't have a wealth of knowledge to offer on the subject other than the fact that as a student I know here's yet another language i'm gonna have to pick up and it gets dizzying. They're claiming improved functionality, and there are a lot of shiny, cool things about it - but all my naive mind sees when I read about it is "oh god not another one." I think when you introduce something this large that affects this many users (something like a quarter billion?) a little skepticism is healthy, imo.

I know my developer friends are stoked about this though, so I'm probably an idiot. Sheesh.

His post was as substantive as 3/4 of the thread and it's not like he's alone in expressing his opinion either.

both of the posts above offered more imo, but whatever.

Hence the next poster after him asking "What do you mean by this?"

IMO in this forum adding the "why" u think what u think is far more valuable than elsewhere like in OOT etc.

Attacking someone for posting the equivalent of "meh" just derails the thread though so Kerowo just repeated the same mistake with an added personal attack.

Kerowo's post was only a personal attack, and that's the one that seems out of line to me.

Edit: I have no problem with someone asking someone else to defend why they think something. I don't like just dismissing somebody because they don't have some magical amount of experience.

What language would you have chosen given their goals? Say, you want modern features, easy transition from and interoperability with Objective-C code, high performance, mainstream appeal and an ecosystem not controlled by an actual or potential competitor.

i have found this forum to be an excellent s0urce of information. Petty arguments like what is going on here really detracts from that: do we really need a ten post hijack of ridiculous bickering?

I find it fascinating

When I look at this thread, I see a clear picture into how there is this crazy android vs iphone war that goes on in the comment sections of articles all over the web.

Even smart developers hold some grudge that they probably won't confess to why or understand why they act strange sometimes but it's there.

I was just trying to simply ask why and it's like shots were fired.

Kerowo is a well established apple fanboi so not all together surprising.

Anyways - after discussions with several iOS devs in my area they concurred with everyone else here that it's best to learn ObjC for now and then move over to learning Swift in the fall/winter.

I sort of disagree if you have access to Swift, which only way is if you are paying apple their developer charge. Or if it's your first programming language there is probably more learning resources available for objective-c than swift but the book available for swift is pretty good.

Hours (plural) seems pretty long. Swift confirmed non agile.

My fanboiism has virtually nothing to do with this. Objective-C is an old C based language that despite the improvements made with the releases of iOS 6 and 7 still has a lot of the syntactic overhead from it's past. Taking an existing language from the current generation and bolting the cocoa and cocoa touch stuff on top of it would put them in the same position they are now with Objective-C. A simpler path to writing OS X and iOS apps is going to bring more developers to Apple's ecosystem which will result in more interesting applications. Swift is an exciting development for Apple and a big part of an already impressive WWDC keynote so dismissing it out of hand seems a bit ridiculous.

I had been staying out of OOT for a while so my tolerance for Jmakin's awful posting had gone away, my bad for reading OOT's thread on the SPU shooting the same day as this thread. Reading his stellar performance in that thread and this has renewed my strength and I'll go back to shaking my head and ignoring him.

My main takeaway from the release of Swift is that I'll be really smug next time I meat certain "ZOMG STFU Objective-C is AWESOME AND MORE THAN FAST ENOUGH/SUPERFAST...SMALLTALK HARHAR" folks that I know who loved averything Apple without applying a single brain cell.



No doubt in my mind official policy will be to try to phase out O-C and make Swift #1. Not sure it'll succeed but chances are good imo.* O-C is kind of wonkey and most people that learned it did so because it was the "Apple language" and not because it's inherently beautiful/great etc (once again imo).

*The idea of a close language seems pretty insane though. Guess Apple could pull it off because they are the closed up company these days but really it just seems insane. Hope I misread or something...because closed language...lol just lol

Named parameters are pretty cool and makes reading method calls a lot easier but the brackets are very weird if you came up learning dot notation and smooth braces.

Til objective c was ever something other than the Apple programming language.

Yeah it is dizzying. The myriad of paths you could go down starting out as a developer is mind boggling. I wish I could offer some sage advice as to how to make choices but I really can't. I will say that I really like Apple products as a consumer. I also can verify that at least some of their firmware in embedded devices is of the highest quality out there. So if you actually chose to work on code for Apple platforms it seems to me that you could do a whole lot worse.

I remember some friends of mine that were in to BeOS development being all hyped about it back in the mid-late 90s. I just stuck with c because the syntax looked even more painful that c++, and when I got briefly interested in trying my hand at iOS development it looked like you could only use obj-c and I noped my way out of there. This is a welcome development to me at least, not that I'm really in any position to say anything negative about objective-c.

I've noticed you do this thing a lot where you read something you don't like then track the person down in other forums to bash them there - regardless of what you think of me or anyone else it's really catty and lame. I certainly don't hold anything against you for it but your comment here seemed totally unnecessary even if I understood why you were doing it.

Especially since the spirit of this forum has been really helpful and kind to beginners like myself, i'm only here to learn and certainly didn't profess myself to be an expert at all on this. I guess in the future i'll be more careful about offering a throwaway opinion lest i incur your wrath.

toty

Found this an interesting read:
http://stablekernel.com/blog/implica...or-developers/

Nice article. I've been working through the latest Big Nerd Ranch book and so far the hard part is waiting for simulator to load; Xcode beta on Yosemite beta is painfully slow.

Hackathon at work last night, wrote an XML generator to ease the creation of demo data for our sales folks in Swift. XML sucks but working in the playground and getting to see the elements as you fiddle with the XML methods is very helpful. The documentation is still beta as well and is a lot of headers with very little in the way of code samples. Fortunately converting Obj C code samples to Swift isn't too bad.

People still use XML?

I thought everyone had converted to JSON

Yea, and Utilities can't even generate XML...

Pinnacle API forced me to use XML... Ack