So much for the "I'm just curious" schtick.

Personally, I maintain an open mind about the American Civil War. Some say 600,000 died, but there are a lot of problems with the evidence and the alternative explanation -- it was posturing and a couple skirmishes but no war -- should be carefully evaluated.

Holocaust Denial:

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/focus/denial/




From above link:


What is Holocaust denial and distortion?

Holocaust denial is an attempt to negate the established facts of the Nazi genocide of European Jewry. Key denial assertions are: that the murder of approximately six million Jews during World War II never occurred; that the Nazis had no official policy or intention to exterminate the Jews; and that the poison gas chambers in Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp never existed.

A newer trend is the distortion of the facts of the Holocaust. Common distortions include, for example, assertions that: the figure of six million Jewish deaths is an exaggeration; the deaths in the concentration camps were the results of disease or starvation but not policy; and that the diary of Anne Frank is a forgery.

Distinct from denial and distortion is misuse of the Holocaust. Misuse occurs when aspects of the Holocaust are compared to events, situations, or people where there is no genocide or genocidal intent. Examples of Holocaust misuse include: claiming that Israeli-government actions are equivalent to those of the Nazis; equating the treatment of animals with the treatment of Jews and other victims during the Holocaust; labeling political opponents as Nazis; or misusing the terminology of the Holocaust to assert that particular actions are the same as actions undertaken by the Nazis.

Holocaust denial, distortion, and misuse all undermine the understanding of history. Denial and distortion of the Holocaust almost always reflect antisemitism.

How are Holocaust denial and distortion related to antisemitism?

The Holocaust is one of the most well-documented events in history. Holocaust denial and distortion are generally motivated by hatred of Jews, and build on the claim that the Holocaust was invented or exaggerated by Jews as part of a plot to advance Jewish interests. This view perpetuates long-standing antisemitic stereotypes by accusing Jews of conspiracy and world domination, hateful charges that were instrumental in laying the groundwork for the Holocaust.

Why do people deny, distort, or misuse the Holocaust?

Like all forms of propaganda, Holocaust denial, distortion, and misuse are strategies to achieve objectives, including:
•To reduce perceived public sympathy to Jews,
•To undermine the legitimacy of the State of Israel, which some believe was created as compensation for Jewish suffering during the Holocaust,
•To plant seeds of doubt about Jews and the Holocaust, and
•To draw attention to particular issues or viewpoints.

How do I recognize Holocaust denial and distortion?

Holocaust denial and distortion are motivated by agendas that are neither about the Holocaust nor about greater understanding of a documented historical event. Some Holocaust deniers, so-called “revisionists,” claim to be authentic scholars, when instead they manipulate facts to support a particular ideological position. Hiding their antisemitic intent under the guise of free speech, they claim to offer an alternate version of Holocaust history. Because legitimate scholars do not doubt that the Holocaust happened, Holocaust denial plays no role in legitimate historical debate. To evaluate if a claim falls within the spectrum of Holocaust denial and distortion, consider the following:
•Is the source reliable? Has the source made other historical claims that were exaggerated or false?
•Does the source present selected facts to support the claim?
•Does the source follow accepted methods of historical inquiry?
•Does the source reveal a particular ideology or belief?
•Does the claim fit within the generally accepted history of the Holocaust?
•What does the source want you to believe after exposure to the information?

Is it illegal to deny the Holocaust?

The United States Constitution ensures freedom of speech. Therefore, in the United States denying the Holocaust or engaging in antisemitic hate speech is not illegal, except when there is an imminent threat of violence. Many other countries, particularly in Europe where the Holocaust occurred, have laws criminalizing Holocaust denial and hate speech. These different legal frameworks impede a comprehensive global approach to combating Holocaust denial.

Where are Holocaust denial and distortion prevalent?

The Internet—because of its ease of access and dissemination, seeming anonymity, and perceived authority—is now the chief conduit of Holocaust denial.

Why is it important for me to care about Holocaust denial and distortion?

The denial or distortion of history is an assault on truth and understanding. Comprehension and memory of the past are crucial to how we understand ourselves, our society, and our goals for the future. Intentionally denying or distorting the historical record threatens communal understanding of how to safeguard democracy and individual rights.

The Nazi persecution of the Jews began with hateful words, escalated to discrimination and dehumanization, and culminated in genocide. The consequences for Jews were horrific, but suffering and death was not limited to them. Millions of others were victimized, displaced, forced into slave labor, and murdered. The Holocaust shows that when one group is targeted, all people are vulnerable. Today, in a world witnessing rising antisemitism, awareness of this fact is critical. A society that tolerates antisemitism is susceptible to other forms of racism, hatred, and oppression.

What can I do to combat Holocaust denial?
•Find out more about the Holocaust.
•How do we know what we know about the Holocaust?
•Share the truth when someone says the Holocaust did not happen.
•Reach out to a survivor, liberator, or eyewitness in your community.
•Hold a memorial service on Holocaust Remembrance Day.
•Discover more about propaganda.
•Learn how to evaluate sources of information.
•Stand up and speak out when you hear an inappropriate, hateful remark.


LEARN MORE ABOUT HOLOCAUST DENIAL

•Misuse of Holocaust Imagery Today: When Is It Antisemitism?

•Holocaust Deniers and Public Misinformation

•Origins of Holocaust Denial

•Evidence from the Holocaust

•Combating Holocaust Denial: Evidence of the Holocaust Presented at Nuremberg

•Holocaust Denial Timeline



RESOURCES AND EXTERNAL LINKS
•Holocaust Denial on Trial provides tools to refute Holocaust denial.
•Anti-Defamation League’s online guide to exposing and combating Holocaust denial.
•The Middle East Media Research Institute’s (MEMRI) Tom Lantos Archives on Antisemitism and Holocaust Denial provides timely translation and analysis of Middle East media related to antisemitism and Holocaust denial.
•The Nizkor Project counters Holocaust denial and antisemitic discourse.
•Holocaust History Project describes and refutes claims of Holocaust deniers.
•Southern Poverty Law Center identifies active Holocaust deniers and denial organizations.
•Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Antisemitism’s bibliography for students and educators about Holocaust denial.
•President Obama’s rebuke of Holocaust denial.
•United Nations General Assembly resolution condemning Holocaust denial.
•American Historical Association’s condemnation of Holocaust denial.

************************************************** *****************


Great link: Holocaust Denial on Trail:

http://www.hdot.org/


Wiki source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

From above link:

In 1945, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander, anticipated that someday an attempt would be made to recharacterize the Nazi crimes as propaganda and took steps against it:


The same day I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never been able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain however, that I have never at any time experienced an equal sense of shock.

I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that "the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda". Some members of the visiting party were unable to go through with the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton's headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and the British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt.

Eisenhower, upon finding the victims of the death camps, ordered all possible photographs to be taken, and for the German people from surrounding villages to be ushered through the camps and even made to bury the dead. He wrote the following to General Marshall after visiting a German internment camp near Gotha, Germany:


The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they [there] were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said that he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to "propaganda."

************************************************** *********
General Eisenhower and others at Ohrdruf:

I read all the posts. Thanks.

IMO, Jews cannot be held beyond reproach whenever criticised or questioned, simply by claiming anti-semetism. It seems to me that someone created an awfully nice system for Jews - whenever criticised or disagreed with, people have been trained to immediately cry anti-Semitism. The same goes for the word racist. It's recklessly thrown about whenever someone doesn't support a "black cause." I'm afraid that these terms have become ways to vilify detractors and shut people up who hold different views. Nobody should be untouchable. If someone or some group thinks that they are always right and should never be criticised, that is an unhealthy individual/group and is sociopathic in nature.

I brought up one "small" point about there being no scientific evidence of gas chambers. I was told I should not fixate on "small details." Unfortunately, there are hours and hours of information on holocaust revisionist arguments and it's not feasible to include everything; my posts are already long enough as is.

The 1992 Acadamy Award nominated documentary "The Liberators" documents how a black regiment liberated a concentration camp. It was narrated by Denzel Washington and Louis Gossett jr. It depicts how two oppressed minority groups come together and see an understanding in each other.

Unfortunately, it was a BIG lie. Pure Hollywood "feelgoodism" depicting how blacks played an integral role in liberating the Jews. There were no black soldiers, let alone whole battalions, who liberated any concentration camps. They had a lot of gall to think that nobody would check. Here is a link to a story confirming the validity of what I just wrote from "times of israel.com."

http://www.timesofisrael.com/ceremon...ominated-sham/

So now that I've established that people in power, in Jew run Hollywood, prominent Hollywood people, tried to tell us a big lie about the Holocaust and pass it off as fact, are you so quick to believe everything you've been told by the writers of history?

Black people were coached up to lie about their involvment in Holocaust history - and they went along with it. Hmmm. Is that a human weakness? Perhaps it has happened before? I don't know for sure. But it's plausible.

The worst part is that Steven Spielberg was a producer of a documentary about the Holocaust called "The Last Days", which won an Academy Award for best documentary. Paul Parks, who was in "The Liberators", was used in Spielbergs "The Last days", as well. He retold his lie. And an incredibly ridiculous liar he is. He smiles when telling scenes of death and horror, his details are vague; his story simply comes across as a childlike fabrication from a poor liar.

One of the other "stars" of the movie, Irene Zisblatt, tells an equally ridiculous tale, with vague details, flippant explanations, and unbelievable stories.

It would take an incredibly gullible person to believe either of these people, yet these are two of the featured people in the film? And it still won an academy award??? Nobody noticed???

The movie "The Last Days of The Big Lie" catches both of these two sociopathic liars in their many lies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80GgR...xdeaA86q-N7Rrg

The internet is an excellent way to check on facts, explore the truth, and reveal lies - and common people can do it.

If such nonsense is presented as truth by people in places of influence and power, then why shouldn't I have a healthy dose of scepticism?

Here's a link to "The Last Days."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtKhjry_nGs

The "funniest" part is the movie poster, which reads "EVERYTHING YOU'RE ABOUT to SEE is TRUE."

FYP.

People brought up the Holocaust. I responded.

About 2 years ago, I watched a holocaust denial film on Youtube. I found compelling evidence. I couldn't believe it. I chose to watch several more. I eventually forgot about it; there wasn't much I could do.

Because of this post, in order to make my arguments, I have begun watching those films again.

So far I've established that the top Holocaust historian, under oath in a court of Law in Canada, said

1) There are no scientific papers on gas chambers - they don't exist. There was never any scientific examination or documentation of how the gas chambers functioned. Strange, considering how huge the holocaust is.

2) There is no single document in existence where Hitler ordered the extermination of the Jews. He admitted it was a verbal order, thus no one knows the exact wording. Apparently Hitler whispered it into his generals ear and it made it's way down the chain of command.

3) "The Liberators" was a coached up lie about the Holocaust. It was a Hollywood movie. Prominent Jews and blacks gathered for screenings to pat themselves on the back about a lie about the holocaust. Who's a revisionist now?

4) The Acadamy Award winning "The Last Days" has a well known liar featured, Paul Parks, describing his testimony as a black man who liberated a concentration camp - we already know that's false. And the "Times of Israel" tried to tell Steven Spielerg that he was using a known liar (see the link to the article I posted - it's in there at the bottom). There are also other people featured in the movie who've been caught telling over the top false, beyond ridiculous stories.

There is also a supposed gas chamber video posted above. Did anyone notice the wood door with the glass, or the window? Both of those would have been broken EVERY TIME there was a gassing. Would Germans, the worlds best architects, build something so stupidly? People need to be much more critical in their thinking.

So far I've not been presented with any evidence that what I'm saying is incorrect, only how it's wrong to deny the Holocauset and be an anti-Semite.

First, stop using YouTube as a source. There are people there making videos that will affirm whatever nonsense they believe.

Second, you seem to get sucked in easily by what specific people say if it affirms what you hope, and give their claimed facts (no matter how irrelevant, unprovable, minute they are) an absurd amount of weight.

Third, considering the damning collection of evidence there actually is on the Holocaust, the burden isn't on everyone else to verify and debunk your beliefs or minute facts you struggle with. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" and all. Do your own work, maybe make a YouTube video of your own. If you're too lazy or don't have the academic capacity, that's your problem.

Finally, please stop pretending to be open-minded and seeking facts. You're clearly a garden-variety Holocaust denier who was easily spotted by the first person responding in the thread. My suggestion is to stop being a cowardly weasel about it (at least someone might respect your balls, even if they're laughing at you otherwise). There are plenty of other ignorant, gullible people with drug-addled brains that you can find on other websites.

Why would there need to be scientific documentation??? Put a load of people in a sealed room and then administer lethal gas. It's not exactly cutting edge science, even back then. If they were to put people into a room and then pour in some petrol and set it alight would you be asking where the scientific documentation was?

66 questions and answers about the holocaust

http://www.nizkor.org/qar-complete.cgi

This may be too much for you op as it's a little more involved than a 5 minute youtube video

You are not hearing us. It doesn't make any difference that there's not a paper order from Hitler or a science journal article about the gas chambers.

Show us you understand and can grapple with our arguments:

Existence/non-existence of an immense historical event does not depend on a handful of pieces of evidence. The event is established/disproved by examining a great amount of data and WEIGHING it.

You insist that there should have been scientific articles on the gas chambers and a genocide order from Hitler. Considered by themselves, they do suggest doubt.

But there are mountains of other evidence: photos of skin-n-bones bodies, witnessed by American troops. Many, many memoirs from survivors. Testimony of German troops and officials. Existence of the Holocaust (6 million dead) is better established than the existence of the American Civil War (600k).

Predicted response to this post: "but explain why there are no science articles."

Sums everything up very nicely but the bolded part... So much this, never got around to mentioning it but youtube is a pretty lol source

1- The issue of whether Israel should accept payments from Germany was actually the most heated and controversial debate in the pre 1967 Israeli state. The opposition was led by Menachem Begin, a prime minister of Israel in the future. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparat...d_West_Germany

2- There are pictures of the gas chambers during and after the war, of countless bodies, of cremation cells, of smoke rising above the camps etc. etc.. I don't think someone was dumb enough to take photos of the gas chamber while it was in action, though.
I can't watch the video you posted, but I really suspect you got Raul Hilberg all wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ma...ora_Gazowa.JPG

3- When my parents were on a vacation on Prague, I suggested them to take a half-day tour to Dresden. My father immediately refused, saying he won't enter Germany. That seemed a little harsh to me, at the time. Even though I knew his mother survived the holocaust. Or that he never knew his grandparents, or the rest of his family except for two uncles, for that matter.
A few months later, I saw a picture from my grandparents wedding, which happened in Tel-Aviv at ~1950. It was quite odd, since my grandmother looked to the camera with blank face. My parents then told me she never really smiled until her first grandson- my brother- been born. As simple as that. Life didn't look so bright any more, even to those he survived the concentration camps.
Consider this in the next time you suggest that many thousands of survivors just made up some stories, for their own amusement or in hope that it will earn them some money in the future.

I brought up some points that I thought were worth looking into that Holocaust deniers have made. I presented them to the forum to see if any of these points could be corroborated. Nobody has come forth to corroborate these claims, therefore I have chosen to cease discussing this matter.

I'm sure there are plenty of folks on Stormfront that would be happy to corroborate whatever points you need them to.

You're as misleading as your sources.

And by misleading, I mean outright lying.

Did you really mean to say you were looking for further corroboration that the Shoah was fake, and are leaving because no one is helping? Yea, I think so.

You don't actually understand what was said about "balancing" all the evidence, do you?

im confused...were you actually referring to the american civil war or the "War Of 1812"?? When you say the North did you mean the yanks or canada??

and FYI... stating that "gas chambers dont exist" are an absolute insult to the families of people whose Kin were exterminated by such a tool...gas chambers exist, and they DID extinguish an incredible number of humans off the face of the earth! dont be ignorant and believe in some ridiculous conspiracy theory just for the sake of being different! I know its good to "challenge" the so called facts, but dismissing something like that entirely is just plain ignorant!

I'm sorry.

I did a quick Google image search for " German gas chambers world war 2 " they look real to me there are even blue prints that come up so I'm pretty I'm going to go with history on this one Oakyoakyit.

I'm not arguing this anymore.

How is this guy not banned?

Holocaust Denial? Ok, maybe give him a chance. Except he's a freaking idiot who argues about the civil war and thinks it happened in 1812. "Jew run hollywood" - yeah, there are powerful Jewish people in hollywood, but w/e, when the idiot holocaust denier puts it like that, how is he not banned already?

No scientific papers on the gas chambers? C'mon.

I'm not banned because I didn't break the rules here. Obviously they believe in free speech here, unlike you, who thinks in terms of your own little politically correct ways. Political correctness does not apply here, thank god. They don't run this place like that.

I agree!! As dumb as some of those cOmments may have been, they certainly don't deserved a discharge!! They may deserve a few good argument points but def not a full dismissal ... I think it's great that ptp opens its range of discussion up to incorporate non poker topics .... But I'm also glad they encourage free speech! And a line should be drawn somewhere if something gets REALLY bad , but not here! Now if this were a forum on the histories of the cause and effect of war then maybe it justifies a solid stupidity warning LOL but freedom of speech is a right! And he can exercise in any platform he chooses

Yes they do. Lots and lots and lots of people have been banned for being less idiotic than you. Whining "political correctness" is a terribly weak defense frequently used by people hoping to change the subject from whatever lunacy they've been spouting.

okay,

If you really are the reasonable open-minded person you portray yourself as, how the hell did you think the things you thought? There's no way an open-minded educated adult could possibly read something on the internet about how gas chambers didn't exist and not immediately dismiss it.

Are you a child? (under 18yo - yeah, that's a child)
Raised by bigots?
Are a bigot and just trying to look as normal as you can?