Thanks for the post Francis. I used them as an example. I think this type of ingested courage was very common. I think many battles were fought "under the influence" and many leaders understood the effects of some substances more then at times give them credit for.

It explains a lot of behavior that does not make sense to us looking back without substance use.

You are sooo right. I hate to link all my posts back to Dan Carlin hardcore history, but he has an episode called ''under the influence'' and he wonders if a lot of the question we ask ourselves are just answered by introducing alcoholism and drugs.

He noted in particular the slowness of Napoleon in his last years, probably from drinking and sleeping pills. Same goes for Hitler and his pills, as well as Churchill and his drinking.

Alexander the great's constant behavior change and genocidal tendencies, as well as his paranoia are all indicators of alcoholism and binge drinking, which the greeks were known for.

But the historical figure that i want to drug test the most BY FAR, is JFK. With all the pills, LSD-derivatives and opiate-based drugs his ''doctors'' gave him, i wonder how much it affected his judgement, especially the bay of pigs, the missile crisis and the Vietnam war.

Even Marcus Aurelius the great Roman leader may have been addicted to opium.

I recently read Marcus Aurelius: A Life By Frank McLynn an excellent book even though it had detractors.

Opium was known and frequently used in Roman society. Medical practice recognized its usefulness as an analgesic, anti-diarrheic agent, as well as other uses including as a pain killer. It was additionally used as an ingredient in antidotes, to poisons.

Galen, Aurelius's primary health provider was reported by a number of sources to widely use the drug. I think it would be down play the impact of alcohol and drugs on history. The people recording history may not have even understood the impact in the past.

That was an excellent podcast.

I wonder even how much impact it had just even on the common man? Not just the leaders? Even recorded history of reports of battles being waged after allowing the opponents to get drunk and be completely unprepared for battle.

Interesting, was unaware of any drug usage by romans except for Alcohol. I assume opium was just chewed(im unaware of any romans ''smoking''). Where would they get opium? How wide was its spread? I have yet to see any solid history on drug usage.

I don't think they smoked it. I am far from a drug expert. I think it was consumed orally based on the great enemy of Rome Mithridates VI of Pontus and his success with building immunity to poison.

"In the next century, Galen (131-201 AD) wrote about various theriac compounds, but his favorite was the Theriac of Andromachus. This preparation was compounded by Galen for the Emperor, Marcus Aurelius, who took a daily dose of it to protect against poisons and to aid in ensuring good general health. After Galen, medicine entered a time of minimal advancement, and with his blessing the Theriac of Andromachus maintained a privileged status as the preferred theriac. The basic formula as it existed through the centuries was fairly stable, consisting of vipers, opium, wine, honey, cinnamon, and about 60 herbs."

Galen. Opera Omnia. Vol 14. Kühn C, ed. Hildesheim, Germany: Olms; 1965.


Another good source is The Antonines: The Roman Empire in Transition
By Michael Grant available on Google books. Do a google search for: "daily dose of theriac" and look for Marcus Aurelius

hmmm, i've always heard the opposite, that they enjoyed their wine in small quantities and watered down, and actually treated drunkards with contempt. is that just a myth?

This is generally what the Roman's did according to many sources. The Roman's occupied Greece for long periods so the custom was carried over to a degree but not fully.

From Eubulus, taken from Wiki:

For sensible men I prepare only three kraters: one for health (which they drink first), the second for love and pleasure, and the third for sleep. After the third one is drained, wise men go home. The fourth krater is not mine any more - it belongs to bad behaviour; the fifth is for shouting; the sixth is for rudeness and insults; the seventh is for fights; the eighth is for breaking the furniture; the ninth is for depression; the tenth is for madness and unconsciousness.

In keeping with the Greek virtue of moderation, the symposiarch should have prevented festivities from getting out of hand, but Greek literature and art often indicate that the third-krater limit was not observed.


Slave helping a drinker vomit...

Another source of Greek drinking, from Plato's Symposium(Symposium being the name for drinking parties):

According to Plato's account, the celebration was upstaged by the unexpected entrance of the toast of the town, the young Alcibiades, dropping in drunken and nearly naked, having just left another symposium.

Add to that the fact that macedonians have a reputation of drinking somewhat more then the southern greeks(depends on the sources here), its not hard to see that Alexander's paranoia and mood swings are simply alcoholism. Personally i work with drug and alcohol addicts, and i have no problem seeing this. Of course, i have never worked with Alexander the great so i might be off!

Generally speaking, drunkenness was a sign of immorality in Rome, but this didn't mean they didn't get massively drunk sometimes (there were, after all, wine festivals, especially in the Hellenistic world). Most of the wine of the Mediterranean was fairly fortified, so it was much stronger than our typical wine of today.

sorry for the bump, but this is too lightweight for its own thread.

I find this study funny. Apparently through history, Britain leads the world in number of other countries invaded - it has invaded 90% of the world's countries at one time or another.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9...uxembourg.html

Guess the country we've invaded the most number of times? I'll give you a clue, the first noted invasion of this country by Britain was 197AD.

Awesome read, worth the bump!

I bought this guy's book for my son for Christmas. He is studying history.

just a bit of fun, lol! It's fun for the Brits to point out to people that they at some point or another have invaded or occupied them.

Happy Holidays to one of my favorite boards on 2+2.

"We Brits like to laugh at ourselves. And by ourselves, I mean other people. And by laugh at, I mean invade." ~ Jimmy Carr

Damnit, I can't remember this guy's name. I bet there is someone here who will know who I'm talking about.

The Arab world used to be a center for science and mathematics, algebra was credited as being invented there, for instance, by Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī. There was a guy after him that was a religious leader or profit or some **** (not Muhammad) who was very influential in turning the Arab world from a center of science and mathematics into a place of religious dogma, which it remains today.

Who was that guy?


gogogogogo!

Probably al-Ghazali. And influential as he might have been, his effect on Islamic culture is probably overblown because the proliferation of his ideas coincided with the implosion of the Abbasid Caliphate. It's more a correlation than causation issue.

Yeah that's the guy. Thanks!

That was kind of funny.

Anyone read the Aubrey-Maturin series??

I've just read Master and Commander and Post Captain and pretty much can't put these things down. Public library for the win!

Just bumping to say I finished Post Captain and it's seriously one of the best books I've ever read. What a writer.

As well as Ogedei, the Mongol leader. His death may have saved a large portion of Europe from being under Mongol rule.

Seem to remember there used to be a reading list for reccomended history literature? Cant seem to find it