I doubt anyone would ever think that it would take a "genocide" level of force to push the Soviets out of Eastern Europe. My point was that an advantage in infantry and tanks for the USSR was meaningless if the West was willing to fight with what advantages it possessed.

That Truman didn't want to go to all out war with the USSR doesn't mean that he didn't handle them with more shrewdness than FDR. He was much more aware of how much trouble the Soviets were going to be (and in fact were at the time) and would likely have done a better job of keeping them at arm's length if he had been president sooner.

IDK about the greatest president, but here's a list of the most likeable presidents:

1. Coolidge. Some great quotes and anecdotes:
Coolidge often seemed uncomfortable among fashionable Washington society; when asked why he continued to attend so many of their dinner parties, he replied, "Got to eat somewhere."

Opposing farm subsidies: "Farmers never have made much money, I do not believe we can do much about it."

n 1924, Coolidge responded to a letter that claimed the United States was a "white man's country":

"....I was amazed to receive such a letter. During the war 500,000 colored men and boys were called up under the draft, not one of whom sought to evade it. [As president, I am] one who feels a responsibility for living up to the traditions and maintaining the principles of the Republican Party. Our Constitution guarantees equal rights to all our citizens, without discrimination on account of race or color."

This was in 1924, when racism was much more accepted and it wasn't at all a politically correct thing to say.

Coolidge did not seek reelection for a 2nd term even though he had a good shot, which I think is a good indicator that he didn't spend much time in his 1st term worrying about reelection.

He cut taxes and kept spending flat: Like Reagan he talked a good fiscal responsibility game, but unlike Reagan backed it up with action.

2. Eisenhower--Built the highways, warned of the military-industrial complex. As a popular general he was above partisan politics, and also seemed to always make decisions on what was good for the country, rather than how they affected his reelection chances.

3. Reagan: Made some of the most heartwarming and inspiring speeches ever, and cracked alot of funny jokes about communism.



Most detestable presidents:

1. Wilson: pompous academic douchebag

1) Washington.
2) Lincoln
3) Polk
4) Jefferson
5) Teddy Roosevelt

FDR, LBJ, are a mixed bag of failure and success.

You are being too kind to that nutty racist.

Didn't Washington own slaves?

And Clinton was a liar in his private life. But we are talking about their presidential record.

But lying about your private life to American people is technically apart of your presidential record especially if you swear and oath on it.

Washington owning slaves is apart of his presidential record. They gave him access to wealth via free labor.

That said, I don't think their have been any amazing presidents to favor every "American". I really have yet to see a president who can come close to qualifying as the greatest president. What we have and certain presidents who make certain key political choices. And even those are not without public, and outside manipulation, and involvement.

my vote is for lincoln as well. he abolished slavery and that is great and all; but he did many other great things. His leadership after the civil war helped ease tensions between the union and confederacy. it is very possible that we could still be two separate countries today if it wasn't for him.

I'm surprised there's so little love for FDR.

Libertarianism is a pop fad with the kids right now, and they have nightmares about FDR.

He was only alive for 6 days after the Civil War.

Ronald Reagan won the only war that could have threatened the existence of the entire human race. Greatest President Ever!!!

lol

Didnt Woodrow Wilson enable the creation of the Federal Reserve? One of the Feds first acts was to cut a check to England for WWI?


Loathe that

So he gave a disproportionate amount of great **** to African Americans... ...can you tell me how that does not qualify as evidence of abject racism against non-African Americans?

Personally I think George W. Bush is the greatest president...

really? jefferson? what about the embargo? he was a great statesman of course but not as great a president imo...

and jackson? he precipitated the biggest financial depression of the 19th century because of his irrational dislike for the Second Bank of the United States. I don't see how he was a good president aside from the fact that he was well-liked.

FDR led the country through the Great Depression and WWII with remarkable dignity. On both a personal and political level. And by the end of his time we went from desperate times to the biggest boom our country has ever seen. How can he not be top 5?

and lol @ anyone who mentions reagan.

i teach us history btw.

I did not specify whether those on my list were good, bad or otherwise. I simply listed five that were better than FDR. That plenty of fault can be found on the list only makes my point that FDR doesn't belong on any "top 5" list. Anyone at all familiar with his time in office has already heard your rather pedestrian endorsement of him in one form or another. Such endorsements are not going to change the fact that as a president he was fair at best.

So to put it as eloquently as you:

lol @ anyone who mentions fdr.

So your response to my pedestrian endorsement is an even vaguer and unsubstantiated statement. Gotcha.

Just being President when an event is occurring is not the same thing as "leading with dignity".

His policies were mostly ineffectual.

FDR did not "lead" us out of depression any more than Obama is "leading" us out of economic problems now. They both just happened to hold office during the period in question but had no real clue what to do about it to actually solve the problem.

I like FDR, I think he was a good guy who tried his best. Trying your best is not the same as being good at the job though which is what you must do to be considered "great".

Criteria for a great president.

I think a great president should ...

1. Not start a war if it can be avoided. (Peace should be the number 1 goal of any leader of peoples)
2. Lead in a time of economic prosperity or been part of the cause leading up to it.
3. Be progressive in the area of social reform (Its more impressive if it was unpopular.)
4. Be effective as a public communicator.

True enough. But that does not mean decimating all military strength.

This is basically luck. Economies are cyclical and the president can't control the cycle. We were coming out of recession with Bush I but not fast enough to get him re-elected. Clinton reaped the reward for a robust economy when he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

This is the problem with (current) politics. Social stuff like the abolition of slavery and later equal rights were extremely important and overdue and should have happen much sooner. But the monster bureacracy is growing exponetionally and the governement has gotten way too obtrusive with way too many social agendas. The president/governement should run the country and not peoples lives.

For me this is totally meaningless as long as they do a good job running the country.

On my phone so I can't quote

I think a 5th criteria should be how policies did in the long term. I.e under bill Clinton the economy was prosperous but his policy on mortgages that gwb continued was a huge contributor to the housing market crash so he should lose points for that

As should reagan for the policies that he implemented, which were unsustainable long term and have caused a lot of problems sorry for not going into more detail but it's a pain to type via phone and I assume most people here have a solid enough grasp of history to figure out what I'm referring to

Seems like JFK should get pretty high marks, then, though in general I would agree that he is an overrated (but not bad) President.

1. Cuban Missile Crisis as a defining event. Not only did he have to play an elaborate game of chess with Khruschev and far more hardline Soviets, but he frequently had to navigate between hawks in his own government and the Pentagon who were pushing for war (a war that might have killed hundreds of millions). Balls of steel for sure. Vietnam is another story, but he avoided the fatal mistakes of LBJ... but who is to say what would have happened had he lived.

2. This is mostly luck, as economies in Europe and Japan were still recovering, and China and India were still in the infant stages of development relative to today, but he certainly didn't counteract the prosperity.

3. Big check here. The first President to really tackle the issue of civil rights with a profound amount of courage. Deeply unpopular in the South (which at the time was a large base of Democratic support), the civil rights issue might even have contributed to Kennedy's assassination.

4. Big old check again. In the modern era, he was as good as Clinton or Reagan, and probably better in individual interactions (Reagan's unscripted interactions were hardly the stuff of legend).

you guys are correct on 2. Is there a way that we could change it to be say something like "Was a positive on the economy" without making it luck based.

@mrbaseball - I think being an effective communicator is very important to be a leader. Yes we are all desperately happy that he ran the country well but usually criteria 4 helps out in other areas - I.E. If your a good communicator you have help in being a good leader

@mgv1208 - Thats definitely an interesting idea. The Presidents policies are obviously of utmost importance and you can't underscore how important it is to have a good long term impact on the nation.

Its possible for this to benefit someone as a leader, however theres not really a correlation. For example Obama is one of the greatest if not the greatest Presidents in terms of communication, but as a whole he hasn't done much to demonstrate great leadership. Same with Reagan, i wouldnt consider him great but he was a great communicator. I think this criteria is just not as important as other things such as policies, ability to work well with congress, negotiating, etc...