With The Borgias in full swing in Showtime, this would be an appropriate place to discuss the facts vs the fiction of this show as well as all things involving renaissance Italy, i.e. the Medici family of Florence, the troublesome priest Savonarola, and the effects thier actions had into the sixteenth century and beyond.

I find the show itself to be entertaining and try to take it as such, just entertainment, but right off the bat I was tilted. Donna Vannozza Cattanei, Cesare and Lucrezia's mother was not around during the time of Rodrigo's accension to the Papal throne. They along with another brother were living with Rodrigo's cousin, Adriana daMila. It is through her that the future Pope met Giulia Farnese.

Also, timeline seems to be an issue as well. Lucrezia was married in June of 1493, yet Cesare was not a Cardinal until September or October and did not perform Lucrezia's wedding ceremony.

I figure these types of shows have to walk a fine line of reaching a broad audience and staying loyal to historical facts. In order to accomplish this, they have to take artistic license (like putting certain players where they were not, making composite characters, or putting events in timelines or sequences that lets the story flow better).

This really involves the same issues disussed in the fictional history thread.

At the end of the day, those who know the history, still know the history and can benefit from being entertained and discussing with others how real life differs from the portrayal. I have been involved in many interesting discussions stemming from things like this (Band of Brothers, for example). So, I thinks its okay from that perspective.

As for those who don't know the history, it may cause them to get interested in and learn about a period of history that they had no intention of learning about. That is good too. Even those who don't wish to go any further with it, at least get the benefit of being broadly exposed to it.

Yeah, I understand that license must be taken to obtain viewers.

But getting past the TV show, this era was filled with alliances that changed daily and children,especially daughters were used for political edge. I am currently reading Christopher Hibbert's book Borgias and will have it finished by this weekend and will continue to other readings in this era as well.

Is this show any good?

The subject matter is very interesting, so I have high hopes

An interesting anachronism I saw in the first episode of the show was the presence of a Capuchin monkey. Capuchins are only native to the New World, and Columbus hadn't returned from the Caribbean by the time Rodrigo Borgia ascended the papacy.

In broad strokes, I agree with your take on this type of entertainment. I would simply like it stressed that this is , in fact, entertainment and not history. But, like you, I think that at the end of the day anything that sparks an interest in history is a net plus.

He had not even landed at the time. Good catch

Having studied in Florence and visited often, I can highly recommend the book "April Blood" by Lauro Martines. It is about the assassination plot against Lorenzo de Medici and his family by the Pazzi Family with backing from the Pope and other influential leaders at the time. Books is fantastic. Also high on that list is "Brunelleschi's Dome" by Ross King. This is about the construction of the Duomo of Santa Maria Novella, the famous church in Florence. Both fantastic books.

What was great about studying in Florence and learning about the history of the Renaissance was leaving class and walking back to my apartment and passing the churches, streets and palazzos where these events unfolded. (Now I have to settle for playing Assassins Creed II) :-(

Personally, I find the Medici family 10x more interesting than the Borgias.

I'd kind of like to know as well. I don't have Showtime, but if people seem to like it I might want to check it out.

I have always thought this as well. I don't know too terribly much about them, but every time they've come up through studying different points in time I'm always fascinated with some of the stuff that went on.

I actually watched the first couple of episodes and its very good

Ive seen the first four episodes of the show and they are entertaining aside from the liberties with facts. Of course I like anyhting Jeremy Irons is in, so there might be a slight bias.

Lucky kid

The Borgias was a fantastic series and now that season 1 is over (season 2 has been confirmed) I fully intend to read more about the family. I always intended to read more about the Medicci's but now I can add the Borgias to that list.

please tell me there will be more emmanuelle chriqui in it

I strongly suggest History according to bob podcast, who's currently running a history of Venice, Milan, Florence and all the italian city states in the renaissance. Good stuff.