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| History Discussion of History up to Circa 1990 |
07-18-2012, 12:41 PM
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#46
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veteran
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ALEA IACTA EST
Posts: 2,200
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Re: 200 Years Ago- June 24, 1812 Napoleon Invades Russia
Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveMarina
And btw, why you think that Napoleon won't be more harsh than USSR was?
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Just one small example. Their are many history offers us.
Rape during the occupation of Germany
"Avenge! You are a soldier-avenger! … Kill the German, and then jump the German woman! This is how a soldier celebrates victory!"
The Soviet Counterinsurgency in the Western Borderlands. Cambridge University Press. p. 277.
The majority of the assaults were committed in the Soviet occupation zone; estimates of the numbers of German women raped by Soviet soldiers range from the tens of thousands to 2 million.In many cases women were the victims of repeated rapes, some as many as 60 to 70 times according to the book The Struggle for Europe.
At least 100,000 women are believed to have been raped in Berlin, based on surging abortion rates in the following months and contemporary hospital reports, with an estimated 10,000 women dying in the aftermath. Female deaths in connection with the rapes in Germany, overall, are estimated at 240,000. Antony Beevor describes it as the "greatest phenomenon of mass rape in history".
Stalin is alleged to have said that people should ' understand it if a soldier who has crossed thousands of kilometres through blood and fire and death has fun with a woman or takes some trifle'. On another occasion, when told that Red Army soldiers sexually maltreated German refugees, he said: 'We lecture our soldiers too much; let them have their initiative.
Ah the good old days of the Soviet Empire.
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07-18-2012, 01:14 PM
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#47
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centurion
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 151
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Re: 200 Years Ago- June 24, 1812 Napoleon Invades Russia
Hooney Badger, you are demagoguing right now. We are not talking about WWII, you should discuss this in another topic.
BTW, you think germans did not raped any women in Belarus, Ukarine, Poland, e t.c? And what you will say about this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_war_crimes ?
And why you didn't reply to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by monarco
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Nothing to say?
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07-19-2012, 12:55 AM
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#48
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veteran
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ALEA IACTA EST
Posts: 2,200
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Re: 200 Years Ago- June 24, 1812 Napoleon Invades Russia
Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveMarina
Hooney Badger, you are demagoguing right now. We are not talking about WWII, you should discuss this in another topic.
BTW, you think germans did not raped any women in Belarus, Ukarine, Poland, e t.c? And what you will say about this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_war_crimes ?
And why you didn't reply to:
Nothing to say?
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From your wiki posting:
"Those seeking the preservation of East German culture banded together to save Ossie Crosswalk Man (Ost-Ampelmännchen), an illuminated depiction of a fedora wearing man in crosswalk lights. Many German cities in and near the former East German border, including Berlin, Lübeck and Erfurt, still retain the use of the Ampelmännchen at all or some pedestrian crossings due to its cultural relevance, and many souvenirs sold in East Germany and in Berlin make use of the icon."
I stand corrected. Forget the Rape during the occupation of Germany, Mass deportations, serious violations of individual rights for decades; the USSR has left major cultural influences the world will appreciate for generations to come like the Ossie Crosswalk Man.
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07-19-2012, 05:06 AM
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#49
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centurion
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 151
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Re: 200 Years Ago- June 24, 1812 Napoleon Invades Russia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey Badger
From your wiki posting:
"Those seeking the preservation of East German culture banded together to save Ossie Crosswalk Man (Ost-Ampelmännchen), an illuminated depiction of a fedora wearing man in crosswalk lights. Many German cities in and near the former East German border, including Berlin, Lübeck and Erfurt, still retain the use of the Ampelmännchen at all or some pedestrian crossings due to its cultural relevance, and many souvenirs sold in East Germany and in Berlin make use of the icon."
I stand corrected. Forget the Rape during the occupation of Germany, Mass deportations, serious violations of individual rights for decades; the USSR has left major cultural influences the world will appreciate for generations to come like the Ossie Crosswalk Man.
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Why you are so concerned about those rapes? No one knows the right amount, and no one ever will. You can even say that all germans was raped(yes! males and females), and it will sounds to me the same.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_du...ion_of_Germany
And one more thing, do not withdraw this from context of WWII. This didn't happened in peace time, It was war times, against most deadliest enemy.
Give me the link about mass deportations of germans from East Germany. Or you just want to write something?
Serious violations of individual rights - EVERY empire violates rights of civilians, every. Even you'r USA.
There is no point to discuss WWII and how evil USSR was in this thread, i suggest to create a new one, something like ''USSR empire of evil'', or ''Why there was no democracy in USSR?''.
Everyone is seeing what he wants to see, even in history. It's your choice, but don't say this for all the rest of world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey Badger
Are you implying that there are a number of people in the old East Germany clamoring for the old days of Soviet occupation?
That's actually true. There's even an english wikipedia entry on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostalgie
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Yes, I'm implying now.
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07-19-2012, 01:48 PM
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#50
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veteran
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ALEA IACTA EST
Posts: 2,200
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Re: 200 Years Ago- June 24, 1812 Napoleon Invades Russia
Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveMarina
Why you are so concerned about those rapes? No one knows the right amount, and no one ever will. You can even say that all germans was raped(yes! males and females), and it will sounds to me the same.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_du...ion_of_Germany
And one more thing, do not withdraw this from context of WWII. This didn't happened in peace time, It was war times, against most deadliest enemy.
Give me the link about mass deportations of germans from East Germany. Or you just want to write something?
Serious violations of individual rights - EVERY empire violates rights of civilians, every. Even you'r USA.
There is no point to discuss WWII and how evil USSR was in this thread, i suggest to create a new one, something like ''USSR empire of evil'', or ''Why there was no democracy in USSR?''.
Everyone is seeing what he wants to see, even in history. It's your choice, but don't say this for all the rest of world.
Yes, I'm implying now.
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I think your missing the point. Empires involve forcing compliance on others. That's what Napoleon was attempting to do in 1812 when he Invades Russia. That is what the Mongols did when they conquered what we now call Russia and it's what the German's attempted to do in WWII. The Question is what makes them great? The Greeks, Romans and Mongols left a pretty interesting legacy. Napoleon's exploits and the old USSR not so much. That said we did establish that the Ossie Crosswalk Man was a truly lasting legacy of old East Germany.
The USSR does not even make the top 10 runner up list of great empires. Carthage to the Romans would be a much better nomination until they ran into Scipio Africanus. The Russians in WWII had some talented generals but none of the caliber of Hannibal, Scipio, Sulla, Cesar, Pompie the Great or even Napoleon.
How do you tell a communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin.
Ronald Reagan
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07-24-2012, 05:20 PM
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#51
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centurion
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 151
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Re: 200 Years Ago- June 24, 1812 Napoleon Invades Russia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey Badger
The USSR does not even make the top 10 runner up list of great empires. Carthage to the Romans would be a much better nomination until they ran into Scipio Africanus. The Russians in WWII had some talented generals but none of the caliber of Hannibal, Scipio, Sulla, Cesar, Pompie the Great or even Napoleon.
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As I writed before, Russian Empire is ancestor of USSR. Here you go some links:
1) http://www.spike.com/articles/z2soh2...res-in-history 8th
2) http://listverse.com/2010/06/22/top-...es-in-history/ 3rd
So, you are not right.
You should search more about Russian Empire, I think that you will be fascinated.
And about generals, It's only you'r own thoughts.
Quote:
How do you tell a communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin.
Ronald Reagan
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The same I can ask about Christianity, Democracy, and everything else.
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