There's no reason you should be able to play with 20BB stacks in the NLHE/PLO rounds of 8 game, especially at the higher stakes. It allows people to be able to get by playing the NLHE/PLO rounds as a limit specialist and risk the least amount. You cannot do that during limit rounds. Stars has taken a stance with separating cap from regular NL games and increasing the minimum buyins. Why would it be any different for 8 game during those rounds?

Wasn't sure where exactly to post this but this seems like a good place. I also sent an email to PS.

I don't play 8 game but your post seems perfectly logical and as someone who plans to learn mix in the near future I would tend to agree w/ you

Maybe introduce antes in to the NLHE/PLO rounds to induce more action. They tend to be kind of nitty. Make it 40 or 50bb min with 150-200bb max with antes. Perfect.

signed

NL should def have antes

I also think the game order should be changed. There's no reason for all of the stud games and big bet games to be back to back. It makes it more fun if things are switched up.

I propose:

2-7
Stud 8
PLO
Razz
LHE
O8
Stud Hi
NLHE

signed, +1 to adding antes to nl

Antes in NL would be amazing, I also prefer 40bb min or something though it's not a huge deal. People sucking at nl can compensate by just push/folding at 20bb but I can't compensate for my awful stud games

Yea exactly. This seems very cut and dry and I hope Stars makes the correct decision. At least 40BB min, preferably 50BB-200BB with antes. I'd also love to see the rotation mixed up but that's not as important as the other two.

In order of importance

1) Whatever order the WSOP used this year for 8game (Negreanu authored it, I think) should be used for 8game mix. It was good.

2) Make the stud antes a little bigger. The current Stars mix ante is 10% of the BB. Something like 15% should be more ideal, especially in shorthanded games.

3) Make the mandatory minimum buyin 50bb and put in a small ante for NL

4) Stars should consider adding NL 2-7 (with antes and you can't openlimp) and Badugi for a 10 game mix

5) For down the road (not anytime soon) Stars should look into programming badeucey, badacey, and possibly 2-7 razz

The whole point of mix is a bunch of fun games and edges are less defined. The current version of mix has basically gotten regs to stop gambling with each other, since stud antes are small and NL doesnt have antes.

Good post Clayton. I highly doubt anyone could argue against increasing Stud antes, adding an ante in NLHE/PLO with 50BB min, and switching up the mix being great for games. It's turned in to a nitfest in the big bet games and there has to be a change. This seems like a very simple change to make and it will improve games SO much.

I refuse to support a 10 game mix, though. F Badugi!

I think you underestimate how awesome shorthanded badugi is.

THIS THIS THIS. so important. cant count the number of times ive capped it on like 5th street in stud thinking we are still playing razz.

Yea it makes for less confusion, and it makes it more fun having a way different game to play every single round.

List of 8-Game fixes so far that everybody seems to agree on. I haven't had one person say they disagree, both in this thread and just talking to other regs in the games. This needs to be fixed at 20/40+ ASAP! Might as well add the changes to all of the limits, but high stakes really needs this. This will make the games more fun, and induce more action. It also prevents people from short stacking the big bet games. Stars agrees short stacking is terrible for the games (they made CAP tables, and raised the minimum buyin on other games).

1). Make the minimum buy-in 50BB in NLHE/PLO games.

2). Switch the order of the games.

3). Add antes to the NL/PLO rounds.

4). Make the antes slightly larger in the Stud rounds (Razz/Stud Hi/Stud 8).

I've e-mailed Stars and I hope everyone who sees this does the same . Just link them to this thread and add in your own thoughts (or just copy/paste this post). Hopefully a rep sees this and takes care of it ASAP.

Absolutely do not randomize the order of games.

Just switch the order to your prior suggestion or WSOP 8-game format.

+1 to randomizing being bad. the suggested order above looks great and im sure the wsop order was great as well.

edited :P

these are mostly good suggestions, however on big bet sizes you're simply going to get the limit players saying the opposite and nothing is going to be accomplished (this sub-forum isn't really the right place to discuss imo.)

I think there are two solutions, either min/max caps or higher blind cap games. At present you have 30bb min for PLO and 40bb for NL cash (which is confusing) and there should be a cap of 100bb per pot as limit players always complain their results are mainly determined by a few large big bet pots, and at some point stacks do get deep and become disproportionate forcing them to sitout or leave. Alternatively, lets just have bigger bets but make it cap as the bellagio games used to be, so if youre plaing 100/200 FL then instead of 25/50 nl/plo have 50/100 with 30bb cap and everyone can feel happy to gambool a bit more. You guys probably hate these ideas obviously.

On the other points:

- definitely switch the order of games (think FTP did that?)
- NL should def have antes, not sure about plo
- 10 game is way more fun than 8 game
- antes are rarely more than 10% of bb anywhere, could maybe have them be 1/8 of big bet so $25 at $100/200
- HU tables pls, grinding mix games against regs is very boring.
- def do baucey/badacey too

Anyway, this should probably be moved to a better forum (internet poker?) and used as the suggestion thread for what we want to see on FTP when it returns as many of the ideas already existed there and they will be more open to change/experimentation. We can also then add additional requests like baducey/badacey and custom mix game tables (since most live games seem to be determined by the players) if a simple solution can be created to determine what games are played.

obviously i would like all of these changes to happen, but most of them are silly (game order, etc is not). it's a group of NL players arguing for changes to the NL section of a mix game, there couldn't be a bigger conflict of interest and it's all just self serving.

I think the cap on bigbet is a great idea. We do that in our local mixgame (30/60 limit, 10/10 PLO with $800 cap).

If the Limit:Bigbet ratio is 4:1 (ie 40/80 limit, 10/20NL) it feels like anywhere from 40-60bb cap is ideal.

Cole, I think it's a reasonable request. If the max buyin is 100bb, then people shouldn't be allowed to buyin for 20bb. It's rehashing a similar argument from 2 years ago.

Game order change should 100% happen, it's silly not to.

For NLH/PLO - implement 40-60bb cap, make whatever cap is min buyin, add small antes for NLH (not for PLO)

Increase stud antes

I think game order is by far the most important one but I think they are all positive changes that are good for the games and that players would really have to act self-servingly to argue against (IMO)

The real important thing Stars needs to implement is Open Face Chinese though But seriously Badeucey and Badacey would be pretty cool

Are there any objections to the same ordering of games that was used in the WSOP?

Does anyone know what this ordering is?

just curious is the reason for changing the order of the games to make it less profitable for people to sit out/take brakes during games they don't like?

is there any system in place besides peer pressure to stop people from constantly avoiding the games they don't like?

what about something like you can take a break during any game you like however you can't sit out of the same game twice in some amount of time. so for instance if you sit out of stud8 to take a piss or smoke then you can't sit out during that round again for either a certain amount of time or a certain amount of rotations?

doesn't really matter to me as i don't really play the mix games but just curious as the few times i messed around in the FTP mix there were a few people that would constantly sit out during 3 of the games and it was pretty scummy imo.

The main reason to reorder games in ring games is to keep players from being confused about what game is being played.

In tournaments there is an additional motivation of not unfairly giving (dis)advantage to any group of similar games due to timing of blind increases.


Many months ago we actually implemented a rule against players habitually sitting out games they don't like. However, when I discussed this with regular high stakes 8-game regulars, their unanimous opinion was that they prefer that such players not be actively barred from playing 8-game as they were generally preferred opponents even when only playing their best subset of games.

If there are recurring problems with specific players you are playing against at high stakes 8-game, email highstakes@pokerstars.com and we will look into it. Such complaints should be about opponents you are facing yourself, not based on observation of games/stakes that you do not play yourself.

I pulled this from PokerNews coverage of the Eight-Game link

PLO
Limit Hold'em
Stud 8 or Better
NLHE
2-7 Triple Draw
Stud
Omaha 8 or Better
Razz

I think this order is slightly better than CompleteDonk's order, because the games with the most action are more evenly spaced out.

Looks good to me.