The fact of if they have new employees, new network and new card ramdomizers is not the most important point here. If they do, which i dont think we can be sure of, UB and AP still stole millions of dollars from the poker community and have returned non. It has been proven that the owners were involved and it is just not right.

We 2+2 are the voice of the poker community. It was 2+2 that made the cheating known to all. We may have stopped the cheating for now, however as many have said, it will return, unless we send a message. UB and AP MUST SUFFER the MAXIMUM consequences for what they have done to the poker community. Not only took millions from honest players but also damaged the reputation of the overall game and mainly of online poker.

The very minimum we should do is:
1. Swear never to play on UB or AP again, no matter how good the games are, how big the site gets ect.
2. Try our best to make this known to everyone, keep applying pressure to UB andAP until they refund the funds to the people who were robbed.
3. Do our best to make sure people do not play on UB or AP. This is even finding people who do play on there and explianing about the cheating scandle. Introducing them to lagit sites such as fulltilt or pokerstars. Give them all the information and let them decide if they want to still play on UB or AP.

Remeber we being 2+2 have a great power [to speak for the online poker community] and with great power comes great responsibility. Unless we act now and make sure we send a message buy taking away business from UB and AP i am sure we will be attacked by this type of cheating again. If we take away nearly all business from UB and AP we show any other sites thinking or attemting to cheap players out of money, that the poker community takes action against it.

For many of us poker is our way of life, the way we live. Or for many of us it is simply a game we like to enjoy after a hard ways work. But unless we make a statement and make UB and AP pay for what they did, the game may lose its credibility and attraction for many people. The game as we know it may change for ever.

Thanks for your time, any thoughts or more ideas of what we can do would be greatly appreciated.

Yeah, you're right. The AP and UB situation proved that it would never happen twice to the same business.

Oh, wait....

orly?

I didn't get into online poker until 2008, and didn't know about the UB scandal until probably half way through last year. so i have now read most of this thread, read about potripper, russ hamilton, the fact that this dodgy gaming commission has no real power to prosecute. more importantly read about the way that it became very public but the company never really did much about it at all.

I am sure that stars and full tilt have had there own internal issues, but the UB one was obviously very high profile and made a lot of people lose a lot of money and have far less trust in general for playing poker online.

so for my part I am just not sign up for a UB account. I have played on quite a few of the sites, sampling to see what each has to offer, but I just can't see myself despotting. i know i downloaded the client a few years back though (long since formatted)

if/when UB actually put this thing to rest by paying lawyers a lot of money to work out how to prosecute russ hamilton and whoever else was involved in some court somehwhere then I would consider. its a trust thing for me. I can't trust UB with my money. i just don't feel comfortable.

I genuinely wish seebok the best to try and sort things out. That said, I can't see him making any progress until he actually free up time to work on it. Even the public schedule we know about (running pokerroad, UB promo work, poker2nite tv show, podcasts, listening to so-hip-it-hurts music etc) is pretty intense.

on a sidenote, as much of a scumbag as russ hamilton almost definitely is, the guys who got away with it and have yet to be named and shamed... they are even worse. i wish russ had the balls to step up and go on some tv show (poker2nite! lol) and just do a tell all. just come out and say: "this is how we stole a lot of money". just come out and say it, knowing that the public admission is sure to have a fairly negative impact on his life. its about the only redeeming thing he can do at this point.

Yeah doffo, Russ Hamilton needs a good slap around the face to wake him up, then once hes awake needs the **** beating out of him. He should go for a long run and think about what he has done, not only robbed good people, but damaged the reputation of online poker. The only way he can make this even close to right is if he comes clean about everything and names and shames.

I'd like to defend potripper. Who hasn't called down on the turn with 9 high??