I dont have their software - can someone check who plays on UB. Just wondering if there was an upgrade the same date that there was on Absolute Poker, my understanding was that the hole card reading could not be accomplished before this upgrade on Absolute, but again I could be wrong or it could be a moot point.

Standard risk management for most any corporation, unfortunately. They assess the damage of admitting without pressure vs the chance it never comes out, and the usually higher damage if it does. Just like Enron, the Catholic Church, the S & L scandal, etc, etc, etc.

Yeah, but they DID have a ton of upgrades during the summer into September. You can check the upgrade logs on the UB website. I remember logging on and being like "geez another upgrade?"

http://ultimatebet.com/support/software-updates

Things like "Just a quick update to make things run smoother and faster to boost your overall game experience" probably mean "hey! we're installing superuser capabilities come donate money, thanks!"

(Regarding potential UB software upgrade..)

This is a big part of my uncertainty, as I remember with the Absolute case there was a clearly identified, single update to the software, and then all of the abnormal play/cheating that followed. Maybe if it can be shown that this alleged UB cheater did not show on the radar until after some matching UB/Absolute upgrades on the same date?? And if the sites are linked, and superusers exist on both, and the cheating started right after the upgrades, thats pretty much a smoking gun for all. And of course, like in the Absolute case, it will not be limited to just one account.

Okay, I went back into my 2007 DB and found I had 127 hands on Nionio, here's his stats:



Unfortunately I cant get the HH from PT... for some reason it's all blank. I'm going to try and retrieve the HH.

All the hands I have with Nionio are from Aug 4, and Aug 12 07.

Here are his top winning hands... maybe one of you guys can browse the list and see if there's any hands that you dont have the history for already:

Oh, I didnt see the list if it was posted... but you guys mentioned 6 or more other accounts. If you could list those screennames, I can search my PTDB for them. Thanks!

So, it seems that these superusers, and the ones fingered in the original AP thread, are characterized by high VPIP, high winrate, and high river AF. Has anyone with a big db from other sites looked them over for this kind of pattern?

Sounds like it could be file problem in the PT folder. I recall something like this once. If you can't figure it out on your own then post the issue on the PT forums and they can likely help you.

fwiw I used to datamine a TON of hu hands on ftp. I had something like 3M hands gathered over 5 months at limits 2/4nl to 300/600nl. I never saw anything unusual about anybody's play there. I don't have that db anymore but if someone has it then you could skim through it just to be sure.

TRAMBO: In your communications with Phil and/or others, it surely must be possible to figure out just WHO these people were, no? I mean, they had to cash it out *somehow*...do you foresee making any progress in getting to the bottom of just who the scumbags were on the receiving end of these funds? (inside job maybe? AJ green involved?)

As you know, I have a good relationship with the head of the KGC. In the Absolute report, a big deal was made about the fact that KGC was satisfied that Absolute had fully refunded the affected players...Phil may subscribe to the "Sry, $ was cashed out, BLNT" school of thought, but the KGC won't agree, I doubt -- Of course, the KGC doesn't exactly have all that much pull in that as best I can tell the only thing they could do is yank UB's license and fine them, which might mean zip, but it's something.

not going to really dignify this with a response, but i echo MDMA - my hat is off to you guys for uncovering all this

There is a sick amount of money to be made on UB, completely understand playing there despite any of this. I'm sure Trambo made plenty of bank last year regardless of superusers, and in my case I play purely Omaha cash.. its tough to find enough games spread on Stars and Tilt, UB is necessary to maintaining my bottom line.

trambo get my AIM from somebody, want to talk

Get on aim

4,

"There is a sick amount of money to be made on UB"

As I wrote earlier: "After that, if you care, you could try to organize a boycott or something, but that's likely a waste of time more than anything else. Memories in the poker world are very short, and soft games trump principle for many players. I mean, look at AP. They actively lied and tried to coverup cheating they were aware of, changing the story multiple times, and only in the face of incontrovertible smoking gun evidence did they finally admit that cheating had occurred. And it's highly likely that management there knew this crap was going on all along. Yet people still continue to play there and at UB"