lower sets?

sick hand indeed. tbh i want to fold river.

im pretty sure aa = aq here on riv

I am going to say he flopped a flush with 56c.

Leading the flop seems standard, getting action thereafter represents TC has a real hand and best way to extract value and also protect is to c/r him pretty big relative amount.

It's a lovely bluff if he has worse hand than TC but more often than not I bet he turns up with the flush here. QJc or KQ seems possible too obv. Also, the fact noone has gotten out of line yet leads me to believe he will show the flush here expecting to see TC show up with a big hand too - one that is very hard to fold in this situation. Cooler ftw?

From his previous posts it seems he likes 4-betting wide range preflop a lot against tighter / more careful opponents, of which I think he puts TC in that category.

Also, information available to us now is that there is a thread above posted by Krantz saying 40/80 is his new favourite game lol so presuming he is running well on it!

durrr, why the turn bet against krantz here is terrible btw?

From knowing Jay, I'm sure he can turn hands like weak two pairs into bluffs on the river and call also value bet lower sets, depending on what level he thinks Tay is on. I agree that value betting a lower set on this river, this deep, is thin - but Jay can make those value bets if he thinks Tay thinks he's running him over (which OP somewhat implies). So I think AAA is a much better bluff catcher here than AAQ since AAQ might lose to some hands Jay thinks he's bluffing with and AAA might beat some hands he thinks he's thinly value betting. Obviously this is all amplified by the deep stacks, but I don't think Jay is afraid of either bluffing or thinly value betting this deep.

prob not qualified to post here but i think this is an important piece of information. not only is krantz never vbetting worse but i don't think hes jamming this board with any set for tht matter. i think we can take out all undersets but we can also take out aa and kk. someone alluded to him hitting KxKc on the river but the c/r on the turn makes that a quite unlikely holding imo. so i think we can we safely assume his range is polarized to clubs, straights and air here.

anyway awesome hand, i like ec10s post, and i would call.

Taylor Caby !!

call and feel dumb for losing a pot this big at 40-80 with a set on a 3 flush board. or win and say yays. but yea call.

such a sick hand

+1

I think I'd feel better about getting it in on the turn here, but if you call the turn, you should be calling most rivers. It does widen his range of hands that he'll turn into a river bluff since as other posters mentioned, you can almost never have a flush here as played.

sick fold imo. pretty sure you told him you were only playing a few hands w/ him. makes me think he has a flush here and is hoping you wont fold a set/AK here. from my experience when a session is about to end players tend to overextract rather than increase bluffing frequencies.

I know Jay and his game very well. He is a sicko and by calling the turn you have to call the river.

But are there any rivers you would fold? do you call a club river?

No

One important piece of information: As already said, your line is almost never a flush and therefore a set is a massive part of your range - in short all of it.

Without getting too complicated, if you know that he knows you have a set this is a fold on the river. He cannot expect you to fold a set, as he never gets to the river having put so many bbs in pot (Maybe Ace with the King of Clubs, but then he doesn't value SHOVE river) with a hand that you beat.

This is one crazy hand and thanks for posting.
.

Probably this is a relatively minor part of the hand, but how can 4-betting preflop possibly be bad? 4-betting preflop seems about as good as the initial raise to me. His 3-betting range is soooooo wide.....

If KRANTZ knows that Tay has a set (which is not all of his range here) then a shove is a solid bluff because of course Taylor can fold a set. It's a 3 flush board and there are even 3 different straights out there.

The other thing is that I don't really think Taylor's hand is fully defined until after he calls the turn c/r, so any hand that KRANTZ was bluffing with or value betting (but can't beat a set) now pretty much has to shove the river becuase his line is so strong.

I really don't want to say any more but do you really think Krantz builds the pot on the turn so he can shove-bluff the river to make him fold a set? This is not an ego match and I know the cash is relative but they are playing for 900 bbs effective. I don't think a bluff shove against a set is profitable or likely.

Remember if Taylor doesn't have a set, he either has a flush or Krantz is winning the way this hand is played out....

i disagree strongly that GP's hand is never a flush here. why is it not? if GP will play TTT this way, why would he not play a flush this way at least good portion of the time as well?

i'm not sure i agree with durr that AA = AQ here. this would imply that krantz' range is {flush, air} and i think that's almost an insult to krantz. surely he is capable of value betting a hand better than TT but worse than a flush here; especially if, as everyone is saying, GP's line is "never a flush". problem is there are only really 3 hands that fit into that category. AA, KcKx, and QcJx. but these 3 hands are certainly possible.

i think the key part of this hand is that by calling turn, you MUST call river unimproved. if krantz thinks at all like i do, after he bluff c/r's turn and you call there's a 25k pot out there that he's not going to give up on with a bluff if he thinks you're capable of folding a big hand. and krantz is certainly the type of player who a) plays like this (imo) and b) is capable of this.


in response to this: it's incorrect to assume that krantz was c/r'ing turn with the plan of getting called (by a set) and pushing river. krantz surely knows that GP (probably, i assume most people would) folds a ton of big hands to the turn C/R. when krantz gets called....see my last paragraph above.

i'll chime in with this:

if i'm bluffing, i need to inflate the pot. i can't make him fold anything unless he has to stick his whole stack in.

if i've got a big hand, which i would label as flush, straight or set, i need to inflate the pot. i can't win a 900bb pot unless he sticks his whole stack in.

krantz is mr shipalot
always deep knowledge
always krantz

buy yourself a CR subscription TC then ask yourself what to do. And do what all cardrunner memebers do, chuck it up to variance and swings.

cardrunners sucks

someone ban this moron. taylor puts up one of the more interesting hands HSNL has seen in a while and this idiot flames cardrunners

i have a cardrunners membership