This thread's getting complicated as hell, but I'm pretty sure AceCR posted the story about Taylor suggesting that he multiaccount openly. I think every other thing that Taylor responded to was from an e-mail viffer got anonymously that presumably comes from someone who is not AceCR.

taylor, how do you still give stox the benefit of the doubt on the collusion accusations? He lied to you about secret accounts and he defrauded his customers for years about what type of player he was

also, can you please get stox in here to answer the allegations against him, a simple "no i did not collude" is not enough

Taylor since cardrunners new stance is very against multi acounting and cheating would you guys do every thing in your means to help prove weather nik actually coluded? You have the power and the means to make him turn over all hand histories he played, im sure you can make it part of your settlement agreement with him? Also might want to escrow his money and refund the people he did cheat out of money? Also maybe put him on a lie detector test? I think its way past trusting him and taking his word on things.


I mean its what i would do. seems like a good idea to me!!!

Yeah, you are right, I'm tired. But you should have let it go and see what happened. LOL

No hard feelings AceCR.

ya that was not me. While I knew many people who have worked for CRers, I would have no idea of their internal workings. And if I did and wanted to publicize them, I wouldn't post anonymously.


oh and Viffer just won this thread.

I just want to say that the way your post read to me was that you thought TFPT recipients, not Full Tilt, were owed a refund. That is why I responded.

I don't want to derail, so please PM me, I would like to discuss a few major points I believe you are very off base on in your posts to me.

I've played cap with 40putts and Kinetica lots, and me and alot of other regulars have noticed some "soft" playing to some extent. Obviously i cannot see their holecards but from my own personal experience it seemed they're not dumb enough to do "obvious" collusion, or open folding QQ if the other guy has KK, etc, they'd play in such a way that if cards were flipped face up there could be a "plausible" explanation. I have played lots with BOTH of them, and from that I basically know their games inside and out.

The few days in between that first posters allegations and the official HSNL start thread another cap regular told me that 40putts switched account names to BulltF0rdTuff (he read the 2p2 post that was quickly deleted).. This ford guy recently came into the games with a timeline that matches 40putts quitting.

Now after looking more indepth at them both, and having past history with 40putts it became VERY conclusive (NOTE: IN MY OWN OPINION) to me that it was definately 40putts. At this time i did NOT know 40putts = Stox, just that 40putts = Bulltf0rdTuff and that 40putts has always had something shady (once again my own opinion) going on with Kinetica. Now here is where it gets a bit more interesting.

After coming to this conclusion, I paid closer attention to Kinetica along with bulltf0rdtuff, to see how/if or what was going on in between them (partly to put a final confirmation on whether 40putts was indeed bulltf0rdtuff, my thoughts being their "arrangement" would continue) I feel after playing thousands of hours (call it a hunch) of cap, and knowing more of the small nuances of 30bb play, It felt like Kinetica was playing bulltf0rdtuff in the exact same way he played 40putts.

Now i know this could just be a condition of 40putts and bulltf0rdtuff having the "EXACT" same stats for the most part, and thus be a condition of Kinetica looking at his hud and adjusting the way he would for someone with X stats, but it seemed like they "weren't" colliding as much as Kinetica does/or would with someone else who had X stats. Obviously this is just my own belief of playing with all 3 of these names, but I know for a fact i could confirm or deny collusion very easily even if they're trying to be sneaky, if i had access to the holecards, to me i think it becomes VERY clear whether or not they're colluding once the fact we looking at the small window where 40putts just switched account names, but was playing with Kinetica, and me, among others, whilst NOT being openly accused yet in public.

Look at those hands and it will save alot more trouble then trying to find statistical proof in a 9max stars game -- (hint: with some regulars, and the way the table is set up, i will always take seat perferences when first sitting down, alway sitting on someones left, or right, or whatever, as your first seat choice doesn't mean collusion)

I've sent him an e-mail asking whether he'd be comfortable outing his database for analysis by some people that the community respects. If he has an issue with it circulating publicly I've suggested that I host the database and people can analyze it via Teamviewer as a solution (while I sit by with a book to make sure it doesn't go anywhere).

ok I don't really want to derail the thread either and since I don't really play these stakes I'll go back to lurking soon but I'm pretty sure if I took a random 2-hand sample from your play and you had AA both times that would show that it is very unlikely to happen by random chance. I don't remember how to do all the math but the odds of over hundreds of thousands of hands having something happen and the odds of it happening one specific time (aka I pick the 2 hands and they happen to be AA vs. having it happen twice in a row over the huge sample) are just completely different. And this is one specific part of the data. Sure it's possible they never had a chance to pick seats. But if that's true then there's about a 2-6% chance the actual results would happen. Obviously that's plausible and not totally out of the realm of possibility, but it's something. And just because over their huge sample of hands together this data might occur that doesn't make it any less fishy that the exact sample someone analyzes happens to be one where it is likely they are practicing some seat selection. Hopefully you can see the difference here.

edit: and then the obvious part where seat selection does not equal collusion

bryce, are you still as adamant as you were before that stox didn't collude? check ur PMs about a possible wager on this

bryce, now that stox has admitted to being 40putts, what do you make of him defrauding his customers for years about what type of player he was?

thats great but id sugest having the sites email all the hand histories with the owner of the accounts consent, not that nik would manipulate any data, im sure its just to ensure that someone didnt hack into his database and plant eveidence against him.

viffer,
Could you ask the guy who originally e-mailed you to confirm the stuff that Taylor/Green Plastic said about him?

Noah,
I could def supply a good amount of 3/6-25/50 6m hands

Awesome. You (or anyone else) can e-mail me at noahsddb@hotmail.com

man stox must be soooooooooooooooo angry with leatherass right now