I think this almost always varies from player to player. Against a TAG you've been 3 betting a lot I want KJ of the four by a mile since we can pretty confidently get it in if we hit top pair (which will happen with KJ more than the others, plus our kicker is strong).

If I'm against a more solid player I think I'd rather have A2s, since most solid players don't call too many 3 bets with Ax our ace is usually live, and if we both flop an ace we can usually get away from the hand. With KJ it's tougher to respond to a raise from a solid player with little history when we hit top pair, so I'm not a big fan of having KJ in this spot against a solid player with little history, personally.

I'd prefer to have 88 against a weaker player. We can often check down our hand and don't have to worry about being bluffed later on, and we can also often bet/fold most flops and run little risk of being blown off the best hand.

57s I'd want least out of all these hands on almost every situation.

Overall KJ > A2s > 88 > 57s

Well, every good player has a slightly different style, and image, and different 3bet %'s and all that... since a typical decent/aggressive opponent will play slighly differently depending on who it is doing the 3betting, the way that the hand will play out will be a bit different for just about every good player. Hence the type of hand that each good player would want to have here is going to vary.

88>>>>KJ>75s and I'd shove A2s pre here often.

wtf?

75s>KJo>A2s>88

After reading this thread, I keep seeing 88 on button.

sorry, often IFF I played it.

Hijack open raise and you pick up A2s on the button. If you decide to play it you push? Sounds awesome.

I haven't read much of the thread, but this is highly dependent on history/flow. If you know the guy is calling pretty tight and mostly going to CRAI, I'd want KJ > A2s/88 > 57 since calling all in w/ a 5 hi draw sort of sucks.

if he's looser and there's more of a chance he is either leading or c/c a decent number of flops, id want to be playing the 57s a lot more.

88 is best when you know he is the type to call these 3bets with a pp and will often c/c on a nice looking flop.

In the situation you described with the information you provided, I dont think it makes any difference what our cards are.

KJ > 88 > 75s > A2s, but this thread is confusing me to the point where I'm going to have to think this over a while.

so you rr w/27o as often as KJ and 88? come on

lolol obviously referring to 4 bet shoving, read the OP, arnt we facing a 3 bet?
meh I'll double check it.

i think the player described will mainly be calling with pocket pairs

KJ will win at showdown pretty often and plays well IP + opponent will give some action on dry boards such as K33. If both players hit though, you are drawing dead.

A2s has 3 outs over a pair but when you hit you are not going to earn much more than one bet. You can put pressure on if a flush draw flops and have decent equity if opponent hit and puts it in. You won't often put it in drawing dead as you won't take much pressure on A high flops.

75s has potentially good equity vs. sets and is easy to play postflop IP

88 does not do too great vs a range of mainly pocket pairs. You will not be able to continue confidently if you miss and your opponent pays a bet (then when it's checked down you will often lose) and you will not be paid off enough if you hit.

so i think
A2s > 75s > KJo > 88

a slight hijack to the thread: i've been having trouble putting hijack on a good range. i think it's usually a middle pocket pair or something but then they c/f to my c-bet on an 8 high board and i get really confused.

what range do you think many opponents are calling with there OOP (say mean range)

um, out of the choices he gave us.

there are many more unpaired big card hands in cutoff's initial raising range than there are pocket pairs. vs a tight reraiser a lot of those potentially dominated hands like KQ might go into the muck. vs. you, probably not so much.

We can start with any PP, all suited broadways, suited A's down to A8, AK-ATo,T9s-76s.

You can tighten or loosen it when comparing your play and image into the equation. So if you think you're viewed as a LAGier player you can add some more SC's/A's, blah blah blah...

Against that range atleast, 88 has 53% equity. KJo has 41%. A2s has 38%. 75s has 35%.

i would rarely reraise 88 in position here, that being said i'd prefer to have 88 over all those other hands because occasionally you flop a set and when you dont you still can say [censored] it and put it all in. KJ you only say [censored] it and put it in when you flop at minimumum a gutshot usually. A2 is total garbage as far as having a hand is concerned probably. 75s doesnt flop something you can say [censored] it often enough compared to KJ, and 88 you dont need to flop anything.

the thing is it doesnt really matter all that much because so often this hand is not going to showdown. and when it is, a lot of the time you are not saying [censored] it i have XYZ weak hand, its because you flopped real big or because you are bluffing with nothing.

I would take KJ or 88 for sure, but which one depends on the type of opponent I'm up against and lots of other criteria. Usually I would say KJ.

-Jeff

Big aces and KQ and stuff are definitely in a lot of people's ranges. Other stuff like suited connectors and weaker draing hands depend on the opponent.

88>KJ>75s>A2s

strassa always posts so well

Great OP Jman.

I'm shocked there isn't a clear consensus that A2s is by far the worst hand to have.

FWIW, I am thinking along the lines of KJ is slighty > 75s + 88 (not sure which I would rather have, though I'm leaning towards 75s).

I may be overvaluing 75s because I don't have that much experience in the more aggressive high stakes online cash games where weaker hands have a lot more show down value in big pots.

A lot. We won't be going to a showdown *that* often, but it will happen often enough for it to matter a lot.

I have another question. Which hand do you think you will be most likely to put your entire stack in with? (note the difference between me saying likely and willing)

I have a feeling most people will say KJo, but for me, the answer would probably be 75s, mostly stemming from semi-bluff shove equity.

when you get called, have position, and have 75s it's hard to semibluff though bc you just get checkraised allin whenever you bet the flop and he wants to continue

most likely to put stack in is KJ and it's not close at all