does it round numbers, too? pretty unlikely to get to an even number after 3 hands and also one that implies a standard rake amount of 4.

Fyp

It is pretty damning if the whole of Jose's HEM came from untrackable euro sites, where there were trackable sites with good games running and for some reason, no games came from those sites. Is that what's going on here, or is my understanding flawed?

I'm 96% sure I saw Jose at Aria on June 30/July 1'ish. Not sure how important this is in the scheme of everything so PM if you need more details.

so his winrate implies:
199.33/100*3=5.98bb which fits exactly with the amount he won in $ but not in pound.
is this another bug?

well never mind i m probably not on the right track here....

$2 max rake, 2 flops seen? $4 max rake, 1 flop seen? 1/200 is gonna hit the cap any hand that goes to flop. All seems pretty normal to me.

-Mike

hands are tracked on the major euro sites but on Ipoker players are allowed to have multiple accounts as long as they're on different skins whilst on party poker you can change SN's every 30 days so getting exact results for anyone can be difficult.

This is a good point that I'm surprised hasn't received more attention. For a supposedly smart guy, everything Jose did looks a lot more like someone in a lot of trouble who needs 50k NOW than an evil mastermind set to take the poker community for millions.

How hard would it have been to space these attacks out, not target so many people who know each other closely, use multiple accounts, give some legitimate coaching sessions where you don't rob your student, and keep the scam going a lot longer?

Guys ask your self this, what do jungleman and DIH have to gain by moving in with Girah? Why did a looking for a poker prodigy thread pop 7 months ago telling a story of the greatest upcoming player ever. Who crushes heads up and can't get action? Why was DIH so adamant on vouching for Girah when questions where raised in earlier threads. These guys basically built this guy as a super star. normal 2-4 nl players saw flaws in is story. A ton of players that played Girah saw flaws in his story. And the timing of this poker genius poping up right after Isildur1 is very supscious. I think Girah went rogue with his scam, but I think there was a greater scam being prepeturated here. I think Girah was being created as an islidur1 action type junkie. Where all the high stakes regs would want to take him on? The thing is black friday hit and it killed alot of the high stakes action so the plan never fully took off. Why was Girah issuing challenges to DURRR and Isildur if he supposely was in make up and got scamed by his uncle. I think a lot of things needed to explained and Girah should come clean if this is the case. Why would a guy who won millions on poker need to scam people playing 10-20 nl? Maybe because he never had alot of money. but was just a fictional creation to fraud unknowning highstakes players once they saw how bad he played, he would get unlimited action. Just a theory... that should be addressed. And if this is true this is a far greater fraud then what Girah did.

You guys really got ask yourself why would a player that had all the fame and sponsorship deals and worth millions (even if he did got scamed out majority of funds) still had ability to make money back fast with his suppose God-like ability? Why would guy jeopardize this for 30k? If he had a future earning power of millions. But if his skill set is over stated by DIH and jungleman so they can use his account. He might of got greedy and went rogue for some money.

it is correct if hem just takes 200pounds as 200$ instead of actually converting. that s what i hadnt realized.

otherwise he d be supposed to have won 5.98*200pounds which would be much more.

good point

"I only played on Jose's account once. Period."

Isn't this kind of like getting caught cheating on your girl and then saying, "This is the first time it has ever happened baby, you have to trust me..."

it sure seems like he just jumped on the band wagon after losing a bunch of money while staked though, possibly to save his credibility, possibly for more nefarious reasons, or possibly because he was legitimately hacked. its pretty weird that he would lose a bunch of money while staked, dissapear, then bet 300k in a running prop bet 6 months later (after playing no poker, i guess he was sure he'd win this one tho), and the account he lost the money to wasn't the main suspected account, and he 'was deliberately vague' with how much he lost, and etc etc.

i agree this angle is semi-unlikely and i don't want to jump to conclusions but there just seems like shadiness everywhere you look, it seems impossible that SOMETHING hasn't been going on over the last 8 months.

On the other hand what could they do? Continue having DiH writing smokescreen blogs that members praise for him telling it like it is, when they are at the very best extremly disengenous which is apparant to anyone who has read chatlogs and previous statements.

I don't use HEM that much, but can any europeans say whether or not it converts euros/pounds into USD?

In each of the foreign currency rows, if you multiply BB/100 times number of hands, times the stakes in USD you get the winnings in USD... if HEM converts the currency then this is definitely forged. If HEM doesn't convert the currency, then people's concerns about the round numbers at 100/200 pound aren't relevant.

This wouldn't be particularly damning since the best games often run on the smaller, untracked euro sites, and its only in the last while that PTR has started paying more attention to tracking sites.

Not that his results aren't looking extremely suspicious, but this is definitely a red herring.

a few good questions:

1.
so you were not staked to play plo on this account during the time it was supposedly inactive?

2. i apologize for getting into your personal finances but they seem so relevant here: you did or did not pay off your running debt to ashton?

3. true or false: when you lost to the swedish hackers and isildur, things that made you take a break from poker, you had 5% of yourself? that doesn't seem like enough to take a break from poker!

Just got back from a weekend road trip and fully caught up on all this. My two cents:

-I'm not sure how to access hands from iPoker/Lock/etc, but I have a strong suspicion that a lot more than 30k was won illegitimately. I think every screen name that Girah and possibly Haseeb have played on should be outed so players who may have played against them can know and come forward with more info if they have it.

-The Skype logs are very troubling obviously. If there are any more that anyone who was in the discussion group or communicated with Girah/Haseeb regularly about Eurosite games have, they need to be public. Also, still waiting to hear why Haseeb was trying to get Sauce's name thrown in there so much.

-Would love to see this addressed now given the new info: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1050

-Ashton posting in this thread would be awesome since he lived with Haseeb and Jungle for a bit and knows them better than most. I don't know any of the people involved well enough to comment on their integrity, just trying to square away the facts.

-Pretty eye opening story all around considering the level of trust that poker players often put in others whom they don't know super well, have met only over the internet, etc. I think this discussion should be had in a separate forum though.

i mean he is being staked and has a house in hawaii right? he's also 18 years old, runs his mouth about how good he is and how he can play 25/50 with a 1 bb edge against people etc.

the desperation isn't THAT surprising. i do agree that he sounds incredibly desperate in the chat logs, its hard to read them at times he sounds like a heroin addict when he tries to get people to sit with sauron, just willing to say anything.

One plausible enough hypothesis for this is that Jose had misled DogIsHead and Jungleman in matters financial for quite some time while they were in different continents, and so he then needed to get the money together quicksmart before they arrived in Portugal with the intention of living with him.

the coincidence of a known sociopath living with the two biggest marks in the poker community (and trying to hustle 900k out of at least one of them, who knows what kind of advantage being taken of the other), "taking a [fake] break" from poker around the time this girah kid's legend begins, and peppering every story with half-truths, fake emotions, or outright lies is just too much.

i still tend to doubt haseeb had much to do with the actual cheating, but there's definitely more lying going on.

Big +1 to this. Someone who's smart enough to crush high stakes poker and isn't incredibly desperate just wouldn't do something this stupid.....right? I realize that he's 18, but that's still just an incredibly amount of naivety with way more downside risk than upside assuming all the HEM stats aren't fabricated.

This has been said over and over by everyone but I just dont see its validity. I understand most of you guys here dont have business experience but in the business world, routinely you see individuals and companies that make tens, hundreds of millions or billions of dollars cheat on taxes or rip people off for amounts that are miniscule to their/their companies' overall net worth. And even legitimate companies as huge as Microsoft that has the biggest market capitalization in the world, will use their power to rip off each individual customer for even a few dollars at a time if they could, despite how much they earn per day worldwide.

Also think about why some Hollywood celebrities worth tens or hundreds of millions of dollars shoplift a jacket or a pair of shoes. Why would people so rich and famous risk it all for such little amount of money? Think about why Tiger Woods or Bill Clinton would even put all they have at risk to cheat with skanky women?

Greed motivates people(and businesses) a lot more than you guys would like to think. And the thrill of knowing you can do something and not get caught is another motivating factor. When they are doing these things they arent thinking of what's at risk, they are purely getting excited at being able to do something so illicit.

would be very surprised if haseeb was involved in the cheating with Jose, he is way smarter than to do it like that for starters.

def seems to be involved in something though. i'm also interested in answers to the questions posted earlier that u made. we'll see i guess.

I'm not disagreeing with what you said, I'm saying if someone smart was going to cheat/commit fraud, in most cases they would go about it in a much more intelligent and less risky way than girah did, unless they were super desperate.