Does seem odd but then again how did they all meet. They were all moving in together. not sure y all the hate on deldar. he didnt do anything and doesnt seem stupid. he also was accused of scamming jungleman so doubt hes doing anything here involving him. get off his back already

also for all the ppl defending multiaccounting. geez

This. Although many here will fight this theory with all their might, it's clearly the one that fits the facts so far the best.

MA'ing while not a crime is still wrong. Levels of being scummy can be disputed but MA'ing ghosting and playing for others is simply wrong.

I havent read most replies so probably missed most "possible deductions". Not gonna throw a stone but yeah something like that would make more sense.

i was using hyperbole-- #3 obv means i've lived with them/know their parents/would pay whatever money they stole from you, a handful of people at most.

There is a ton of upside in creating the next isildur. The teamviewer superusing was poorly executed and blowed up whatever girah was. Best way I can put what I think are solid facts without naming names and guesing etc.

How likely is it that DIH and/or jungleman have more to answer for here then girah now. Most interesting is the website.

didnt watch the video, but u should know aejones would say this about any video. he either has no idea how he comes off, or enjoys being a nerdy egomaniac



In regards to the actual thread, it just doesnt add up why Jose would do this. There has to be more to the story. Im sure NVG will get to the bottom of it.

This ended up posted in the nvg thread and makes the most sense with current info, imo

If anyone is friends with sauce123 they might want to phone him and suggest he gets on twoplustwo.

I've been reading about this all day and it seems very likely to me that sauce is entirely innocent, but in the DogIsHead chatlogs that were recently posted it seems like DiH is extremely keen to keep his name associated with the scandal.

log is here;

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=315


and here are the relevant parts;


"[8/5/2011 4:34:08 PM] Nick Frame: i dont really see why we need to mention u guys
[8/5/2011 4:34:19 PM] Henrik: i was planning on writing
[8/5/2011 4:34:21 PM] M Moss: Yeah no reason at all
[8/5/2011 4:35:03 PM] Henrik: 'Let me start off by saying that DogIsHead, nor Jungleman, has been involved in this case in any way except being helpful to make Jose come clean about his actions etc etc'
[8/5/2011 4:35:03 PM] DOG: this story can obviously be told without us, but we just wanted to ask to be sure
[8/5/2011 4:35:13 PM] DOG: because it will hurt both of us substantially
[8/5/2011 4:35:19 PM] Henrik: does that seem fine?
[8/5/2011 4:35:25 PM] DOG: yeah, include sauce in that too btw
[8/5/2011 4:35:27 PM] Henrik: yeah obv
[8/5/2011 4:35:29 PM] Henrik: ill include sauce
[8/5/2011 4:35:31 PM] Henrik: ive spoken to sauce alot
[8/5/2011 4:35:36 PM] DOG: because he is for some reason attached to jose too
[8/5/2011 4:35:46 PM] Henrik: yeah i was going to mention sauce as well
[8/5/2011 4:36:38 PM] DOG: if you can just say "Jungleman, Dogishead, Sauce, and others" etc so we're not singled out, but yes, that would be good
[8/5/2011 4:36:44 PM] Henrik: ok"


"[8/6/2011 7:23:47 PM] DOG: henrik originally assured me that it was only goign to be mentioned that me, sauce, and jungle were "nothing but helpful in uncovering and resolving this situation"
[8/6/2011 7:23:59 PM] DOG: but that nothing we told you in confidence or that could hurt us publicly would be written
[8/6/2011 7:24:33 PM] DOG: but despite that matt told me, you guys are going to write a lot more than that now, including that we are responsible for paying you guys back
[8/6/2011 7:25:28 PM] Nick Frame: well that was the only thing?
[8/6/2011 7:25:33 PM] Nick Frame: listen tho
[8/6/2011 7:25:39 PM] Nick Frame: i havent really cared either way
[8/6/2011 7:25:46 PM] Nick Frame: so im not the best person to talk to
[8/6/2011 7:25:56 PM] DOG: right, right
[8/6/2011 7:26:59 PM] Nick Frame: [Saturday, August 06, 2011 7:23 PM] DOG:

<<< "nothing but helpful in uncovering and resolving this situation"
[8/6/2011 7:27:09 PM] Nick Frame: so this is what u want mentioned about u?
[8/6/2011 7:27:14 PM] DOG: [Friday, August 05, 2011 7:36 PM] Henrik:

<<< 'Let me start off by saying that DogIsHead, nor Jungleman, has been involved in this case in any way except being helpful to make Jose come clean about his actions etc etc'
[8/6/2011 7:27:24 PM] DOG: henrik promised me he'd write that yesterday
[8/6/2011 7:27:27 PM] DOG: and that was it regarding our names
[8/6/2011 7:27:31 PM] DOG: oh also including sauce in that*"


to quote myself from the other thread on what i think is going on here

+1

(i've spent way too much time reading about this today!)

that looks a lot more like DIH trying to spread the guilt around

I agree Paul's post will bring you guys up to date. Cates and Qureshi really need to explain. Jose should get charged for the teamviewer scam and hopefully that makes him out the whole story. If he would scam a few thousand at a time who knows what he will go the grave with for a large figure.

certainly seems to point to that, I think that DIH should divulge details of his relationship with girah.

Jungleman seems strongly implicated in this due to the fact the he is one of maybe 2(?) players in the world that have an edge against Durrrr. DIH, surely doesn't, and it is becoming very evident that Girah would stand the chance of an average mid stakes grinder.

If Girah could get Durrrr to accept, JM would be printing an insane amount of money, and Jose/DIH wouldn't stand a chance without some extreme form of cheating.

Unless you still believe that Jose Macedo won 1 million+ legitimately playing high stakes poker, then this is direct evidence that JM was planning to scheme Durrrr out of 1.5MM plus a ridiculous winrate.

The only real implication that needs to be made, is that Isildur1/nobody else with an edge on Durrrr, is behind all of this. JM has way to much connecting him with all of this. People have touched on this, but I believe it should be much more thoroughly dissected.

i think its more like dogishead gets buried at poker, then loses what i imagine is the majority of his roll in a prop bet that he assumes is a lock, against one of his friends (wasn't he meant to pay up 300k? sounds like 250 was a negotiation just to get the deal done and ashton didn't want to bust him), is coaching this jose kid at the time, figures the line between him telling jose what to do and him actually doing it is basically the same, and he is getting annoyed because he can't rebuild his roll because no one ever gives him action, so he just says something like 'hey man i don't have a lot of money on xyz site (esp if its euro), can i use ur account and i'll ship u the difference soon', this goes on for a while, jose doesn't care cos he is young and respects 'papa bear' and figures he is good for it, he hangs out with daniel cates after all, this goes on for a while, Jose is like 'well, these guys i respect are multi accounting and ****, why don't i start full on scamming people now that i have some community respect', he starts straight up stealing from other strategy members, DIH finds out and wants to cover it up because he's clearly implicated in doing some dodgy ass **** whether he is involved in the pure stealing or just the multi account and illegal play on euro sites, people find out, Jose tells his mum and cries about it. DogIsHead is like ****.

At this point the only solution he decides is to pontificate about the meaning of it all, about how Sartre would say its unfair that no one plays him heads up, that its his darwinian imperative to multi account on Joses name, that thats not REALLY stealing from other players to do so, that... well, you get the picture, i'll save you the 9900 words, but i'm sure DIH will give you them shortly.

I'll add that its hard to see motive for jungleman here, the guy has tonnes of cash, is basically the best hu nl player in the world... i just don't see why he would be heavily involved. maybe on the MAing just because he was bored of never getting to play poker but beyond that its hard to fathom. even the MAing is hard to believe because i imagine that would piss him off so much on the flip side. Still, i am learning that not all high stakes poker players share my views on things like etiquette and integrity so you never know.

If the chatlogs are correct or somewhat reflects what really happened. How can you not come to the conclusion that DiH is a piece of **** and there is really no telling what he is capable of?

This is all so ridiculous, what are yo basing any of this on? It's super unlikely JM has anything to do with the scam besides making the mistake of befriending Girah. Also I bet there are dozens of HU specialists who could beat Durr heads up if given the opportunity.

My point with bringing Deldar up is he's a perfect example of someone who has won a lot from poker, but is clearly lacking in the common sense department. I don't expect lurkers to realize that, but he's said lots of dumb things. However, he's clearly not alone in that department and he's definitely not the only winning high stake poker player to say lots of dumb things, so it was kind of wrong of me to single him out. The whole point is, just because you win a lot of $$ from poker, doesn't mean you have common sense. Sure, the majority of people who win lots of $$ do, but clearly there are a significant number of people who don't. Girah, like deldar and others, is clearly in the bottom percentile of intelligence of people who win lots of $$ from poker.

No one is really defending multiaccounting, but the best analogy I can give to make it make sense is think of multiaccounting as stealing from CVS and the scam that girah pulled as pulling a massive bank robery. Sure, they are both stealing, but they are clearly very very different crimes. So, it's not that multiaccounting isn't a "crime", it's more that it's forgiveable, whereas this is clearly not.

Common law fraud has nine elements:
a representation of an existing fact;
its materiality;
its falsity;
the speaker's knowledge of its falsity;
the speaker's intent that it shall be acted upon by the plaintiff;
plaintiff's ignorance of its falsity;
plaintiff's reliance on the truth of the representation;
plaintiff's right to rely upon it; and
consequent damages suffered by plaintiff.

Seems to tick all these boxes. Your casino example is way different as it involves no misrepresentation of the person or the facts. Also girah strongly encouraged everyone to play these accounts under false pretenses.

I am basing it on the assumption that Jose Macedo didn't make 1M+, and was no better than an average mid stakes reg. DIH is AT LEAST guilty of MA'ing. The fact that Girah challenged Durrrr, at least, strongly implies that JM would have been the one playing.

And there would def be no Durrrr challenge if even a half dozen players could beat him.

this has been said before but it's also very possible that girah issued the challenge to durrrr to further his own publicity and had no real intention of going through with the challenge.

Should be noted that Haseeb himself was super used and had a bunch stolen from him by people that could see his cards when he was hacked and might have felt entitled to some back due to stress of busto/black Friday/prop bet.

Pretty easily constructed rationalization

Yeah... it doesnt really need to be noted.. nor does anything pertaining to haseebs possible "motive". You come off real bad here, surely motive isn't how you are going to prove anything right? Speculating on how its possible someone could be scum doesn't do much good for anyone, motive is only needed when connecting dots/parties/events, obv everything is quite connected and you now just look like you are looking to harm haseeb.