That's not what I want to say.

What I'm saying is that if you are part of a fraud, you probably try to cover your tracks. When the fraud is uncovered, what happens next?

Let the cards fall where they may?

Throw due diligence out the window?

What I'm trying to say is, uncover as much as you can and return assets to their rightful owners.

AND since this court of public opinion will never uncover one **** worth of meaningful information, if traheho's got a problem he should take it to a legal court. Now, he's opened up a box of snakes to the point where he can get himself into trouble. Didn't see that one coming tho.

I was gonna post this before but held back. Viffer, basically it does no good claiming over and over that Alec did this and that if you can't provide any evidence or at least a few legitimate vouches to add credibility. It's the same thing with the onepac thread, maybe one pac is a scumbag, maybe he isn't but all that came out of your accusations was a trainwreck of a thread with a bunch of poo being flung from all sides.

Ebarnet, you need to chill out with your crusade. Two things being correlated (chipdumping and fraud) alone is not enough to conclude that Alec is guilty of STEALING $150,000. Not only does his name get unfairly tarnished but he could be expected to pay $150,000 simply because he unknowingly accepted stolen money by knowingly breaking the TOS.

Like ZJ said, if you want to campaign to get Alec's account banned for chip dumping thats fine. But to say 'well chip dumping is often because of fraud' and then say Alec is obviously guilty of fraud is quite frankly ****ing retarded. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't but we have no evidence yet and stealing this much money is a huge accusation, your conclusions ITT are very illogical.

ZJ doesn't deserve the bashing you've given him ITT.

Great, but this has nothing to do with what ZJ (or anyone is saying). Yes we should uncover as much as we can, and if we find out Alec is guilty then we should take as many steps as we can to ensure he is punished. The money should be returned.

At the moment there is no evidence, and there is no concensus that Alec owes the backer $ if he was unaware of what happened, so there should be no punishments handed out yet except for maybe chip-dumping punishments.

Here is what I said in post # 171
I never said or implied that traheho is guilty of stealing.

I implied that it's reasonable that traheho had accepted money foregoing due diligence. This doesn't take him off the hook for the 150k.

SoLost, there will never be definitive evidence here unless all parties involved simply offer it up and we can all believe them. So we are relegated to dealing with the facts at hand and coming to the most logical possible solution.

To me, there are only two logical solutions here.

1. Alec was conned into intentionally scamming the backer out of 150k because he believed it was owed to him by the backer either way from the freezeouts (which I don't think would have actually been the case seeing the way this played out).

2. Alec somehow accepted a really strange and fishy smelling deal to get paid by a chip dump in a very deliberate manner that is so much more fishy than just talking on the phone or something and knew nothing else at all. In this case, he very ignorantly accepted a deal that led to the theft of 150k from an innocent third party.

As I explained in my prior post, there is basically no way Alec was actually getting freerolled here. It would be near impossible that this was some insane scheme judging from how this situation has played out.

As a result, in both instances, Alec should be returning the 150k to the innocent third party who he either knowingly or unknowingly assisted in stealing from, and on the MarkLernerisascammer.com website, his personal claim from Perky should be 235k.

I'm getting on flight to Vegas, maybe by the time I land Alec will answer how much perky lost to him during chip dump and if he gave perky any money from it.

Also the people that needed to know got what they needed to know when I went after onepac. I'm sure I saved a few people money, at least the ones that made logical desisions not greedy ones.

I know that most of us never graduated college, but do we all understand what due diligence is? Do we know how that's going to apply to this situation?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence for reference, it's a pretty good explanation.

Suprised at how many people think it's fine to keep money that is known to be stolen, so long as a sufficient (undefined) amount of time has passed between the transaction and the discovery that the money was stolen.

right!

Alec is the one that extended credit to Perky to play 50k freezeouts! If he happens to get freerolled then that's on him for extending credit to a shady customer. Nobody should be responsible for collecting that debt other than Alec and/or parties hired by Alec to collect the debt.

If the money that was used to pay Alec is now know to have 100% come from a backer and said backer did not authorize Perky to play freezeouts then Alec is pretty clearly imo passing this debt off on the backer to ensure he gets his.

jesus christ this. you're just like all the other nvgtards that breathlessly drool over the keyboard in great anticipation of all the nasty things they're going to cleverly spew out of their assmouth whenever they see zj post.

the ironic thing is he's way more knowledgeable and intelligent then you AND guess what, i bet a whole hell of a lot of people would trust justin with 10x the amount of $ they'd trust you with.
crazy isn't it since he's such a scumbag cheater?

no its not ****ing ironic and your just a ridic troll.
clearly not all ToS ARE A BIG DEAL and i'm sure whenever you see someone jaywalking you rush right over to tell them how big of a criminal they are and to stop breaking the law.


edit: ahahahah ebernet sick ninja edit....i guess that was even too ridic for you huh?

hopefully that means you're crawling back under whatever bridge you live under.

It's ironic how you cleverly posted nasty things there...

Exactly how is ZJ knowledgeable and intelligent than myself. Is it that winning money playing cards makes you knowledgeable and intelligent? In all those hours of playing Magic and Texas Hold'em, ZeeJustin was reading case law, presumably.

edit: Between the time I typed a quick reply message and clicked Post, your flaming message went up. These two messages are essentially the same; only this one considers your post, as well.

The argument that "I negligently handle my business, therefore I am not responsible for anything" is not accepted anywhere... except itt by people who don't know how to handle business.

Ebarnet, what the **** are you doing man. What are you even suggesting?

Your contributions to this thread have been to come in and say how sick Alec makes you and attack him for making this thread (warning people of someone who is scamming/stealing poker players is not a bad thing) then to attack ZJ for a variety of reasons as well as twisting his words. He at no point said that Alec should not be punished for breaking the rules.

ZJ is not just more intelligent than you because hes made money playing cards. He's more intelligent because he actually posts stuff that makes sense while you seem to lack basic logic skills.

If all you're gonna post is vile bs aimed at high stakes players then just stay out of the thread. The conversation is better without you in it.

edit: and now I see you're randomly quoting due dilligence, what does this have to do with anything you've posted? If anything THIS THREAD is due diligence because it's getting the word out that Perky cannot be trusted with money.

ahahahahahha ESSENTIALLY THE SAME = NOT EVEN REMOTELY SIMILIAR???

wow dude not only are you trollish but your flat out delusional.

why don't you post what you did originally so everyone can appreciate your definition of "essentially the same" i think it would help put alot of your gibberish in perspective.

edit: i suck at google cache or w/e but can someone just post for hilarity's sake the post he snap deleted which he is now claiming is essentially the same?
he was yapping about how ironic it was that zj would think ToS wasn't a big deal.