Hey everyone,

I have been a somewhat regular poster in HSNL for awhile and am having a dilemma in regards to my future plans. Because HSNL has some of the smartest minds around, I was hoping to get some thoughts from you all so here it goes...

I just graduated from the University of Arizona in May w/ a double major in entrepreneurship and marketing and am trying to figure out what my next move is in life. Originally my plan was to go to a top 15 law school (3.95GPA 165 LSAT) after taking a year off to grind poker full time, but now I am starting to reevaluate everything. Let me break down each option a little more to clarify where my head is at:

Poker: I have earned my income throughout college playing MSNL and HSNL poker online. As of today (based on a very good sample size), I would expect to make anywhere from 200-500k (maybe more) playing poker for the next 12 months. The range is so wide to account for the fact that I very easily could lose motivation and only get 20-30k hands a month in. My hourly rate is about $500 an hour. The main problem w/ poker for me is that day to day, I have mixed feelings about how happy I am doing this as a living. I know this is talked about endlessly on the forums, but I just can't see myself playing poker as a career for more than another 1-2 years at most for a variety of reasons. More than anything, I feel like I am standing still playing poker and in a lot of ways am ready to enter the "real world" and begin a more socially accepted career path (I know this shouldn't matter to me, but it does).

Law school: As I mentioned, my scores are probably good enough to get me into USC/UCLA which are like 14th and 15th as far as rankings go (My GPA is way above their average, my LSAT is 1 point under their average). The obvious problem here is I am now having serious doubts about going. Even though I am good at school and it has always come very easy to me, I hate it. Like I absolutely hate studying, and obviously at a good law school that would consume my life. The other obvious thing is that it will eat away like 200k of my bankroll. Furthermore, I have heard that if I get into big law which is pretty likely, I only start at 135k a year working ridiculous hours in a job that most despise from what I have read (like 60-80 hours week). From there, I am unsure of the upside in terms of salary. It also is noteworthy that ideally I would want to have my law school apps in by 11/1, but 12/1 is the latest before my chances go down significantly. Of all thesee options, i feel like law school is in a way the least "risky" in that i will likely get into a good law school and will likely do well enough to get into big law. On the other hand, I am risking 3 years of my life and like $200k+
by going to law school if i am not happy being a lawyer.

Trading: This is something that has always interested me but I never really pursued it for no reason in particular. Jason Strasser's post in HSNL about his life as an options trader really inspired me and what what I have read about trading since then makes it sound like something that is a perfect fit for me, although I admittedly still know very, very little about trading in general or the quality of life for those who trade.

In terms of my chances of getting a job like this, I honestly don't know. Aside from my academic performance which admittedly comes from a weak undergrad school( ranking 96th, 45th among publics), I feel like my talent level is extremely high. I say this not to brag, but to give people a chance to let me know about my chances realistically. I honestly put in very little effort to get a 3.95 in college and valedictorian of my high school graduating class of over 500. I also consider myself to be very charismatic and just good at knowing what to say (again, sorry if I sound arrogant). I guess that's sort of the problem I have w/ poker: I feel like I am underachieving given my natural abilities.

I guess one other thing worth mentioning are my goals/values. Obviously money isn't everything, but it is very important to me. If I was going to quit poker here in the next 12-24 months, I would need to be making at least 6 figures. The exception to this would be trading or any other job for that matter if I made some lame salary for a year assuming the upside is ridiculously high. I have no problem busting my ass for a year on little pay if that's what it would take.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance for your help guys,

Garrett

Law is super boring. I suggest making 1.5-2 mil from poker and head into trading.

I am very close with lawyers/law students and poker players, and those two options for you are obviously on polar opposites of the spectrum. Going to law school and becoming a lawyer is one of the most secure paths you can take, and being a poker player is one of the least secure. There will always be a need for lawyers, but poker has a decidedly uncertain future. From all that I've heard, it is NOT worth going to law school unless you are super motivated to do it for whatever reason, be it like that you have a passion for the law or need a good (but not GREAT), steady salary soon. It seems like you are not particularly motivated, so my advice is DON'T do it. Law school is like college without the fun - it is a very difficult grind with far fewer options for what you can take. You are making more from poker than associates make for their first ~ten years. Between your 3 years at a top law school and ten years or so slaving away before (if) you make partner, you are giving up a large portion of your life to do something you are not all that interested in. You seem to do what to do it because it is secure, socially "acceptable" and you are guaranteed a pretty good earn, all of which are valid reasons, but from your post I can't imagine that it's worth it to you. I know very little about trading, but judging from Strassa's post and stories I've heard, the struggles and commitment necessary are analogue to law without the security (the vast majority of law school grads get good jobs and are steadily employed for a while). If you want to feel better about your role in society, volunteer. Most people into law for the security/money and trading for the money over most else, that's just how people work. You are making enough money. You will not see million dollar salaries in law for many years and trading it's a crap shoot whether you ever will (if you do, it'll be a decade I'm sure). Play poker for a few more years, volunteer, and weigh your options. You can take your money and invest personally in securities, real estate, whatever you'd like if you want a new challenge. I can't see law or trading being +EV for you, at least while poker is still fruitful. As for deciding what to do in a few years/your resume gap, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find an intelligent, business-savvy employer who frowns upon your post-grad decision to make a half million dollars a year instead of slaving away to make 60k. That's just my two cents. Or more like fifty cents. Sorry for the long post. Good luck.

I just finished law school. Your LSAT is not good enough for any top 15 school (maybe not top 20 either) if you are a white male.

SSNL pays more per hour than like 5th year associates at big firms so you'll probably be back to poker pretty quickly.

I'd like to hear the reasons. I think your apparent dislike of poker is a big problem.

You're prepared to spend your first few years in trading or lawyering(whatever) working 60-80 hour weeks. If you put that kind of time into one year of poker, you'd easily make over $1m, but you seem to know that you won't be able to do that. Why not?

If you know that poker is not a long term option for you, you need to invest in your future. If taking 1-2 years to play poker won't hurt your chances much, then I say, go for it.

If 1 year off for poker badly hurts your chances of getting another job, or into a good law school, then I think you need to just play poker on the side. Actually, playing poker on the side through law school seems like a decent option, especially since you can't stand playing that many hours of poker anyways, and you find school easy.

Most people who start at big law firms don't stay there more than a few years. They use it to get some training and pay off loans before moving on. You can do a lot of different things with a law degree.

My question is why you want to be a lawyer. You seem very concerned about what law school would be like. But school is just a means to an end. You're only in law school for roughly 24 months. You're a lawyer the rest of your life. What do you find interesting about being a lawyer?

I would advise re-taking the LSAT if you're serious about law school unless you put a lot of time into it the first time.

This is a pretty good option. I know several people who graduated from law school while playing poker basically full-time. Law school is really only time-intensive the first year.

I actually enjoyed law school. But I don't know why you'd want to go if you already have a good income from poker. I think you'll be doing much better off playing poker and investing the money rather than blowing a bunch on 3 more years of school to get a job that pays less than what you're making now. If you want to do something non-corporate, like public interest law or something, you should consider going to a less expensive school. Those places usually don't require the Ivy League pedigree to work for them.

BTW, I went to the U of A for law school and am still here in Tucson. PM me if you want to meet face-to-face to talk.

Cross-post from your BFI thread.

Garrett,

We have discussed this a fair amount, and I know that your future is heavily on your mind right now. I honestly believe that you will be successful at whatever you choose assuming you give it a good effort. You have a lot of natural ability, and I hope you don't let any fears or insecurities dictate your decision here (not that you have implied it would, but worth saying).

I don't think your situation has changed much from the way it was a few weeks ago. You still know you don't want to play poker forever, and you are still unsure about law school (just a little more vocal about it now). I would recommend nearly the same advice as I gave you before. Apply to law school (for next fall) as it is a relatively simple thing to do in order to keep your immediate options open. Realize when you apply, though, that if you are accepted it doesn't necessarily mean you are going to go.

Use the next year you have to really try and figure out what you want to do. Be aware that this is a very difficult thing to do. While you may not figure out exactly what your life's work is going to be in the next year (actually, quite unlikely), you will hopefully know quite a bit more. Use that time to read trading books (as John suggested), travel, talk with other people about their professions, and really try and figure out which direction you want to go.

I think the hardest part for you is that you seem to think you have to figure this out RIGHT NOW. This is obviously a product of recently graduating, friends moving on, family inquiries, etc but you don't have to figure it all out right now. You are lucky in that you have the opportunity to take some time, make truckloads of money, and decide to do what you want to do next. This next year is a great opportunity as opposed to a stressful situation where you should feel lost.

As you know, I have an engineering degree, with a high GPA, work experience, etc and I have no idea what I am going to do next either. For now, the money in poker is great, and I didn't like engineering. I am grateful that I have the opportunity to sit back and figure it out on my own and not be forced into humping a job I hate for years just to pay the bills. (end rant about myself that you have heard before )

Cliffs notes:

-Apply to law school to keep options open.
-Take the next year to focus on figuring out what you want.
-Make money over that year.
-Don't worry so much, you have time to figure this out. Just make sure you put time into it (which you obviously are)

Jason

do not play poker for a living long term, it is clear you have aspirations greater than that. you are smart and affluent enough to do whatever you want within reason (probably going to be hard to suddenly become an olympic athlete however).

consider what you want to do carefully purely from a fulfillment perspective; do not consider the financial side.

if you want to do something that only makes you a small amount of money, it is a good idea to play as much poker as possible in the next year or two so you can write poetry for 15k a year but still own your own house and car.

presumably whatever you want has a salary that is reasonable; if this is the case, and you think you will find some fulfillment in that profession, you are just wasting your time playing more poker, as you won't want for money in an extreme way at any point in the future (excess will just be for frivolities).

if all of this sounds bad, i would consider just going and travelling in a non-poker environment for a while, maybe saving a bit by playing occasionally online, and actually enjoying life rather than micromanaging your future. like PBJaxx has said, people change over the course of a year; especially once they have left college / moved out / whatever. it's not always necessary to 'get ahead' and life is not a game to be solved with formulae, something i need to remind myself constantly...

do not go to law school, ur throwing away 3 years of ur life studying, forget playing on the side, there's no time if u wanna do very well in school. You then throw away another 5 years working ridiculous hours for not enough money(in poker terms). Of u could do whatever the hell u want for the rest of ur life and make tons of money playing poker.

why is everyone so down on playing poker long term? i'd be absolutely ecstatic if im still playing in 20 years. if you are grinding 8-10 hours a day then i guess it looks more like a normal job. But you can avg 500 an hour u play a couple hours a day and cruise

i also have gotten by in a good school without working, which makes me think law school would be terrible for me since i have no work ethic

same for you, right?

What area of law would you want to enter? Does any aspect of the law truly interest you, or would you be doing it just because it's a respectable profession? This is pretty important.

If you're passionate about a certain aspect of the law, like being an ACLU lawyer or criminal defense attorney, then do it. If you don't really know, I would go with the day trader track.

nyc,
my personal experiences leads me to believe that playing poker for a living is not fulfilling for many people; spending money provides a moderate kind of happiness but compared to what someone with financial security, motivation and a reasonable amount of intelligence can achieve it is really just scratching the surface.

although you can partake in other more rewarding pursuits while simultaneously playing poker, many poker players have quite obsessive mindsets, and find it frustrating to be bad at things (or i guess i should say 'not to be very good at things', as everyone hates being bad at things); this is one of the qualities that has lead to their success at poker. it is very hard to do many different things well at the same time, and so giving up poker at some point in your life makes sense if you feel like you could do something else.

once again, if you really find poker mentally fulfilling, or find that a life well lived has more to do with friends, family, enjoying a nice glass of wine and working 20 hours a week (sounds pretty good when i write it), poker makes a lot of sense; personally i have found that the less poker i play and the more i do things i find challenging, the happier i get.

it seems that the way forward for me is to get obsessed with poker a couple months a year and completely ignore it for the rest though, so i guess that is playing for a living.

i really hate posting on 2+2 about this sort of thing, i don't know why i do it; i have a habit of overanalyzing life despite knowing that this robs it of some of its joy.