I found a really great game of 5/10 close to my house a few weeks back that I have been crushing. Lots of fish, and you can buy in for any amount less that 500 big blinds. There were 8 of us, and the guy to my left was betting preflop close to 75% of the time when it was folded or limped to him, and 3-betting apx. 15%. Being directly on my left, I was having problems playing against him preflop.

For example, I get KJ UTG. Hero Folds.

I came up with an interesting strategy to play against this guy. Pretty much I reduced my PFR to 0% and just open limped everything from K8s to 33 to AA. I did this because I felt like I could rely on his open so well that limping just gave me position every hand preflop. If I had a big hand I would limp, he would bet, a few people might call, and then I would put in a huge 3-bet that only he could call. If I had something like pocket fives or KJs, limping denied him access to a 3-bet. I could then close the action and get some value in hands I would need to fold otherwise. Idealy I could be selective about which hands I bet and limp, but separating my range gives other players the ability to define it. But if I limp everything, my range remains as wide as if I bet everything.

My question is this: If this same guy was on your table online, what sort of stats would you need to justify this strategy, and is it an optimal one? How do you respond to those rare players who have stats like VPIP - 80 PFR - 75 3 bet - 20. Is open limping everything you intend on playing the best response? How aggro does the guy need to be to start limping everything rather than bet everything, assuming the aggro player is directly to your left?

You don't need to adjust much to players who's stats are way outside the norm. They need to adjust to you if you have a solid game. You've got this spewing fish directly to your left isolating you with 3-bets so that you have him all to yourself. What's the problem. Let this guy hang himself post flop.

The reason why I wanted to keep the pot smaller preflop is because i feel like my post flop edge is much higher against this guy than my preflop edge if I just preflop re-raise for value. This guy was a bad player, but hes capable of folding to me if I just fold a whole bunch pre and then 3 bet him huge. By limping i keep the pot smaller so i can get much better implied odds after the flop, also maintain a more LAG image playing more hands, even if that image isnt justified (as in, if i limp call with suited connectors, suited one gappers, and lower pairs and huge hands rather than just fold or bet-call or bet raise his 3-bet) when I do finally 3-bet him he will be thinking about all the hands I have played recently, not that I haven't been 3-betting him much.

Overall this strategy lets me play a lot more hands against the fish, because it allows me to play hands I would otherwise need to fold, for example KJs or pocket 2's (because other people are 4-betting him pretty light as well). It lets me close action almost every hand preflop, improves my table image and gives me better implied odds after the flop with all my suited connectors and pocket pairs because our stack size is larger in relation to the size of the pot. Overall I think this strategy maximizes my hourly rate against really aggro players who can be relied on to bet almost every hand preflop. Again I want to make it clear that I'm limping 100% of my playable range, even pocket aces, so as to not define my range with the limp. Sure, I could limp aces and its possible the aggro fish folds and I let 4 people see the flop for 1bb, but this is so rare that I feel that the edge i'm getting limp/3betting or limp/calling easily makes up for this, and much more. Does this make sense? If the fish tightens up I can just go back to never limping.

So what is your plan postflop?

You're going to limp-reraise preflop with your K8s, KJ, 55, so what about postflop when you are out of position against a guy that hates folding and you whiffed the board?

You're just going to give up and check fold?
You're gonna go in to a check/call guessing game?
You're gonna cbet and give up the turn?
Cbet flop and turn and give up river?
Barrel it down?


You've only said anything about your preflop game here, and it is probably bad regardless, but its def bad if you have no postflop plan. You're not gonna have a good idea of his range if hes opening 80% or whatever and barely folding to your reraise. And being oop severely hurts limits your options and control over the pots.

One thing is I wouldn't be raising this guy with SCs or random hands. If he's never folding, you dont want to polarize your range, you want to merge it with all your really good hands and all your pretty good hands. Think high cards that can make big pairs.

Ask for a seat change, get on his left, and start 3betting his opens, isolating him while you have position.

depends on his post flop tendencies

lowering ur sizing and increasing ur range is pry good

This guys range is super wide and although I didn't mention it he was c-betting about 80% and giving up on a lot of turns if he didnt have much. I could just look at the board texture if i didn't have a hand and decide if I wanted to float or raise (both of which worked great on pairs low flops against this guy, I discovered later on in the session). Remember that 75% is not 100% so I can still fairly eliminate a bunch of flops from his range. He also calls on turn and river a lot of weaker hands he should let go of, so I could take him to value town before someone else on the table has a chance too (everyone on the table was itching to get a piece of this guy).

And it is for the final reason I mentioned that I also liked the 0% PFR, a lot of hands were going multiway but also a lot of hands were being 3-bet and 4-bet by other players, with a range of stack sizes. When I ahve hands like low pocket pairs and suited connectors, It's not uncommon for me to be 3-bet by this guy, but sometimes even by another player at the table trying to isolate the fish himself. Limping gives me the oppertunity to see what everyone else is doing before I have to act, which on a table like this is about x1000 more valuable than on any normal 5/10 live table, or any normal game for that matter. Theres such rapant agression on the table, It only occasionally costs me $10 to pick my spots carefully. It also allows me to extract tremendous value from huge hands and often pick up anywhere between 5-30bb of dead money before winning the flop pre or hitting the flop with only one opponent.

This is pretty much what I'm asking. To extract max value, how aggro does the table have to be before your sizing should be reduced to limp? There is certainly a theoretical point in which this is reached, regardless of if this dude I was playing was aggro enough to justify it. From a purely theoretical prespective, how aggro does a person on your left need to be for open limping to 100% of your playable range to be the most profitable play (and it certainly is, at some point)

Like lets say the guy to your left just ships it all in preflop every single hand unless you bet into him in which case he evaluates your range somewhat correctly and decides in a semi-reasonable way if he wants to call or shove or fold. In this scinerio, clearly the best play is to limp, lets say, for the sake of example, 100% of your range. You could limp blind every hand. You limp, he shoves, you fold. you limp, he shoves, you fold. You limp with AK, he shoves, you call. By limping every hand you force the guy who is aggro if its checked to him but reasonable if you bet into him an oppertunity to play to his tendencies which are incorrect.

I'm wondering if, in a more realisitic scinerio like the hyper aggro i played last week, If this is an optimal play, assuming he play better when facing agression then when facing passivity. i.e, he has a PFR of 75% but a 3-bet of 15%. clearly he is not nearly as aggro when facing agression from another player. He makes much more errors when it is checked or limped to him, because a 75% PFR is about x5 the average and a 15% PFR is about x2.5 the average

I run into these type of players as well occasionally, the "ultra agro" and I employ a 0% raise as well if the ultra aggro is to my left (and I actually prefer to sit there ). You get to have position on everyone else essentially, and can control the pot size to your liking as you close the action each hand and it has been enormously profitably for me since I adapted that to my game.

i classify the ultra aggro as anyone who opens about 70% of the time when there is no raise in front of them.

I'll limp in from SB with some hands I don't want to fold but I don't want to call a 3bet with, otherwise I just reduce my sizing to 2x, stack sizes and post flop tendencies are also important though.

Last week had a maniac running around 90/70/50 (pfr/vpip/3b) over around 50 hands at my table and he was 4betting/5betting wide as well. Not only this, but he would just bet/bet/jam post flop quite a bit as well. I just made my sizings 2x, but I was opening wider (although I was in position around 1/2 the time as he sat across from me). Everyone else at the table nitted up and it was just me vs. him almost every hand w/ a very wide range.

Took around 5BI from him in less than an hour.

Also, one hand I 6b jammed AQo vs him for 250bb for value lol. Guy called with Q5

^exactly this. You should be raise / 4betting / jamming on him all day. not limping.

So you raise KJs and then 4 bet oop? If the guy is an aggro monkey where your going to need a hand to showdown because he just doesn't like to fold.. limping hands like KJs is great.

Here's why.. if he's going to overplay hands and try and run you over.. he's going to be winning more pots. So the ideal plan is to keep the pot as small as possible until you get a hand yourself then just make him pay big.

nothing wrong with playing more passively than normal vs savages so you can see a lot of flops and have them make huge mistakes post flop

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I'm kinda ******ed though

Limping to limp/raise and limp/call definitely seems like the best strategy to me.

open limp most of the time...but def do some 4x bet opening to mix it up...knock him off guard

How often do you plan on getting a top 5% hand during a session against a super agro to your left? When you do you must make it count.

If you've already shown the limp raise personality in you, that may detter not only him from open raising but others as well.

Thus , open limping with a premium hand (based on your style throughout the session) may be a recipe for a family pot to ensue.

Conversely , if it's early in the session & you know the agro has a high perpensity to open raise, than indeed, by all means open limp with those monsters.

I don't care what ones tendencies are or others; if you start mixing it up, they will adjust to your mixture. Thus, their tendencies may alter.

I imagine about 5% but then again, i'm not a maths guy.

Start calling with a more depolarized range. Start 4bettung more often with a more polarized range. That's the adjustment you need to be making. Or just switch seats

So simplistic. What is this, 2006?

You have to account for the blockers of the super aggro still left to act. I bet that screws the whole calc up. Could be 7, 16, 42... who knows.