If HU lobbies are structured in a way that you will 100% be able to get action from SOMEONE at any given stake (quickly- not having to sit at dozens of players to get a match), there will always be incentive to improve. If you're a "400nl HU player" you'll be able to get +EV matches 100% of the time at 50nl and hopefully 100nl if you'll play anyone, and if the same holds true for "1000nl HU players" who jump in 200nl then there's always incentive to get better.

There's plenty of incentive to get better now, I disagree with you- but I understand why it's not really magnified based on how things are structured and lack of "fish".

i dont follow. theres incentive to get better because then u can drop down 8x stakes and crush there?

u also clearly state that IF these things existed then ud have incentive to improve. implication being they dont currently exist and therefore there is no incentive to improve.

and let me guess, ur site offers this currently lacking structure

Global player pool rush poker, where the only thing you get to choose is the max stake you will play could be interesting..

either your time is worth a ton or (imo) you are wrong, not really sure what to say but that. maybe we have different views on studying or just how sick good you can get at poker, idk

that just isn't true

i'd call that a lack of ambition


i'm pretty sure most ppl who actually play HU daily will agree with me there is a big incentive to get bigger. that doesn't mean we can't argue whether it should become even bigger

that being said, i've thought about it some more and i think semi koth would be better than the current system for me, so i'm now in favor of semi koth which i think is a good balance of keeping it enjoyable for fish and attracting fish/weak regs with miracle rags to riches stories etc and not let nl100 regs sit nl2k and get the fish

I request a public apology!

Why on earth shouldn't 100NL regs be able to get fish at 2KNL?

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Because they are not 2knl regs, you moron.

this has nothing to do with it, if a 100nl reg wants to take a shot at a 2knl game he should be entitled to do so. They should be trying to get rid of all the scummy behaviour that people go through to try and get into these games.

i am a hu pro. i see daily 10/20+ hu action running on multiple sites including at least 1 and often 2 non-world class player(s). everyone who watches the lobby now and then can confirm this. if you disagree i don't know what you want me to do, take screenshots?

most people argueing for koth are doing so because they want to get rid of the leeches and make it easier to find action (rather than having to wade through the lobby clutter). i don't think anybody that has access to a global playing pool and all the sites would argue there is no action at 10/20+ hu


edit: just figured out you might be talking about 6max. got no opinion on that other than if even half of what i hear is true sites need to step in and make the fish feel less targeted

No, a "400nl reg" nowadays won't be 100% able to beat everyone at 400nl if he doesn't game select, that's obvious. But he should be able to beat all the 50nl guys. And if there's a system where you always get action, that's a system where you can always find a +EV match. There's incentive to improve if there's always a chance to play. Right now that's not the case- you can't always get a 5/10 match, so the incentive to improve isn't as strong as it could be.

If my site ends up having this "currently lacking structure" but you don't like it, stay at Stars/party/whatever. We'll just be another option for HU guys if they want it.

Oh, so extreme bumhunting 20x your standard stakes is now called 'taking shots'. I missed that one.

...

i honestly just don't know why people keep saying this. this is false for everyone who has access to the global player pool. i might have to sit 50 people, but i can always get a 5/10 match in <10 mins

re: Kaby/jcl discussion

I agree with jcl there, these days there's really very little incentives to become "the best" at HUNL or anywhere even close to that. It's actually counter-productive in a lot of ways. Even at MSNL. IMO there's a sweet spot where you can beat/do ok vs good/bad regs but avoid the top 5% (or w/e) players at your stakes. At HSNL it's not hard to see why the HU games are completely dead as edges become very small and the swings are enormously demanding.

Also, Kaby, some people might enjoy improving/being better, etc but the emotional strain and variance level of playing top 5% regs everyday is not worth the hassle. Especially if you play for a living. On a personal level, I've played a huge majority of regulars at MSNL and while my results are acceptable I simply don't feel like battling for hours and always playing very good players. Additionally, I have yet to see, in the last year, someone pull a jungleman and crush regs all the way from 50nl to 5kNL. It doesn't happen anymore. People are smarter about who they play and the edges are much smaller than they use to be.


Anyway, the point of this thread is to suggest things to improve the games... I have, in the past, suggested elaborate league formats/incentives and software improvements to increase overall action. Rewards for HU play, in perticular, are a very easy to implement feature that, if put in place, would create more action, especially for the games up to 2/4 as the rewards:stakes ratio would be higher. I doubt someone at 25/50 would get too excited about winning $1,000 for being the most profitable player in a given month.

Unfortunately, the reason why this, and many of the other suggestions won't happen is that the sites want nothing more than the HU games to die, so that we can all go rake more money for them in other games. Poker sites' profits have dwindled since Black Friday and their most profitable market is the grinders who put in a ton of volume. HU players rarely play 60k+ hands per month. They could not care less about our competitive attitudes or interest in heads up.

There's little doubt in my mind that, with all the awesome suggestions we have seen in the last year, the sites have clearly sent the message that they do not intend to promote action at HU, as they have done nothing but remain idle. Color me surprised if they take action any time soon.