Nobody with a sizeable bet on tom is standoing up saying im wrong either?

Viffer, if your point is that you should lose the sidebet and any money lost on a crossbook thus far but not be on the hook for future losses, I would say that's the only possibly defensible position for someone to argue that this delay somehow changes obligations.

The problems with that argument IMO are:

1) Typically in the law (and I think just more generally as a matter of fairness) parties only get out of contracts based on unexpected events if some unforeseeable hazard occurs either makes the contract impossible to fulfill or completely undermines the purpose of the contract (think renting an apartment for a vacation to a place struck by a hurricane).

Anything else is a risk that both parties bear and there's good reason for that: the more leeway parties get to cancel contracts the more uncertainty there is and potential for unfairness. If both parties assume all risk then it's fair: if there's potential randomness in who wins disputes over supposedly cancelled debts when neither party addressed them then that leads to unfair outcomes. The fact is that some outside force distracting a player from focusing on the challenge and leading to rust was completely foreseeable even if this specific cause of that was not. It's not like you thought it would be impossible for durrrr to get distracted by Macau games pre-black friday, for jungleman to find some PLO fish to play him all the time and distract him from HUNL, for some family tragedy to take one of the players out of the game for a while, for a player to get sick, etc. Jungleman could've gotten sick, decided to travel a while, then jumped back into the challenge. These kinds of things happen and starting to split hairs over which delays/sources of rust are cause for cancelling the remainder of the challenge is a recipe for chaos.

2) It's not clear that durrrr was in top shape at the time of the challenge in the first place. If I remember right he was playing predominantly PLO at the time and wasn't putting in tons of volume at HU NL

3) To some extent a bet on the challenge was also a bet on the effort each player would put forth. A lot of people betting on jungle probably did so because they figured he'd review every session on PokerTracker, analyze new strategies, etc. and that durrrr would probably not work as hard. Not taking anything away from durrrr but jungleman's obsession with working on his NL game and durrrr's being distracted by extremely lucrative PLO/live games were big factors in a lot of people's decisions. Durrrr's delay in getting back in game shape while jungle continued playing HU NL all the time is a reflection of a character trait that was part of the bargain in the first place

I did not stick up for Alec Torelli. You kept saying you were 100% sure he was guilty but couldn't say why and you had no evidence. I was telling you you needed to bring something else to the table. If you consider this berating you, then I guess I did that.

I did not say Stox was innocent. I was not involved in this event at all. I didn't know the people involved and didn't participate in any of the discussions.

Learn to argue what's relevant.

Don't just shout "ARE YOU QUESTIONING MY INTEGRITY?!?!" and then sling accusations at people. It doesn't make you look good.

Amazed that HSNL players are actually taking the time to debate viffer, must be real bored

edit: I also would not feel very good about my wager if I bet on JM against viffer

Im having trouble finding out the details of this Sauce/WCG match. Is it being ran through pokerstars or independently? Maybe someone can link me details if they have a link handy

I feel stupid even posting in this thread as its so ridiculous but hey.

The above quote is so true regarding people's decision to take bets / action on either side, when thinking about who to bet, a huge factor would be a players work ethic. The same thing you (viffer) are actually arguing against and somehow you feel you have a point here due to BF.

I'm surprised Durrrr hasn't rang you and told you to stfu in this thread as you are making him look worse than he already has which is pretty impressive at this stage.

It's also so obv how crazy you guys would go if the rolls were reversed, I'm actually feeling sorry for jungle even thinking about it ha

Something that is interesting and has yet to be pointed out is the epic battles that went down between Dwan and Isildur in the midst of Jungle accepting the Durrrr Challenge. I'm going from memory so the details could be off, but I'm pretty sure those two played significantly more than 50K hands of 200/400+ in less than two months.

What is interesting to me is when you think about how things would have changed if Isildur would have formally accepting the Durrrr Challenge. If that had happened, it is starting to seem highly likely that they never would have reached the 50K hand mark because Dwan would have started delaying in the same fashion he has with Jungle.

Viffer,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMjHhmklJh8&t=0m42s

Excellent point, I don't know how anyone can argue against that.

Kanu and FoxwoodsFiend made very good points. No need to keep arguing with viffer unless Dwan himself wants to talk about it.

I guess everyone saw the DOJ coming and just decided to leave there money on tilt to gain interest over the last few years. Guess stars just wanted to give uncle sam some donation!

Viffer do you not see how your argument is invalidated by the fact that both Dwan and Jungle were in the same position w/ regards to playing Internet poker? You're acting like Dwan was an American and Jungle was living overseas and this has all been a huge beat to Dwan alone. Dwan CHOSE to stop playing jungle MONTHS before Black Friday and in the time after he CHOSE not to relocate and play online as much. You're mad at your fighters own choices, not the circumstance.

I also want to point out that at the time the challenge was being discussed there had just been a Financial Times article that a grand jury had been issuing subpoenas regarding Full Tilt Poker. Combine that with the seizures that had been ongoing, I think everyone knew there was some small possibility **** could hit the fan and Full Tilt could be shut down. In which case the challenge would have to be suspended temporarily, but that doesn't change the bet. Black Friday wasn't the huge unpredictable event you're making it out to be.

If you were naive and you didn't realize that when you made your bet that's your own fault. If you knew that and thought it could be a way to back out if you were losing then obviously that's just bad.

don't you realize durrrrs basement is the madison square garden of online poker?

im sorry you are all right, i was wrong......

Speaking of acts of God...

RL CiB.

Fans arent subjected to the same rules as the players.

Does anyone have experience with a personal chef delivering food to your home? I'd be looking for someone to make and deliver food I can reheat once or twice a week (depending on how fast it spoils I guess, no idea).

I've looked a bit online but all I find are caterers which is not optimal. Do you just have to go to gumtree and hope you find a good one or is there something more centralised?

Ideally, if someone could recommend someone for Camden/London that would be best ;p

Last year there a college football game and the team as up a bunch in the 3rd quarter. It was basically at the point it was impossible for the people who bet on the team who was winning to lose. Lightning struck and game was suspended. All bets were considered "no action". Its easy to take advantage of a situation or see things in a way that benefit you but that is why when you deal with certain people you need to set up rules in advance or you end up where you are now.

How much was each of these?

Would like to buy something like this, no idea what ballpark would be.. thanks

he was asking $3k for one (54in. x 48 in. actually the one on the right but its hard to tell from that pic ^) and $2.5k for the other (48in. x 48in.), but sold me both for $4k. Both are painted on canvas.

Last I heard they were still in negotiations wrt which site it will take place on.

Open Face Chinese Question. I'm building an OFC AI using artificial neural networks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_neural_network).

What's the estimated value for FL? I get a range of value from multiple good players but it might be a small sample size. There's a high percentage most players are overvaluing FL.

You can PM me if you don't want it public.

In return, I'll let you know what the machine thinks once we're sure of its estimation. Thanks.

Do any Americans who live outside the US and travel a lot/don't really have a permanent address have health insurance? I can't seem to find a plan I'm eligible for and apparently under the new health care laws we're all required to have it and will be subject to an annual penalty of 1% of our income, payable to the IRS, if we don't.