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Old 02-23-2017, 05:32 AM   #1
banne1992
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Counter stratergy against very small c-bet sizes

I reasently moved up in stakes and I did notice a whole new catagory of players which I don't really know how to make adjustments against. The games are between 5/10$ and 50/100$ 100bb deep 6-max online cash. The phenomena happens when you play HU out of position against the prepflop aggressor.

You've mostly decided to call a raise in the big blind or you've called a 3-bet OOP. You check to the agressor:

They decide to c-bet really small, usually inbetween 20-27.5% pot. I was wondering if there is a good counter strategy againt this? What adjustments should I make compared to players that bet 40-80% pot? A note is that I'm up againt good balanced players. At smaller stakes these sizes usually means weakness, some ace highs or other bluffs looking for me to fold my air, or some weak hands, like pairs below top pair. It is these type of hand or the acational top set looking to trap. These playeys are unbalanced and will play theirs strong hands, their top pairs, their overpairs etc, differently

Against theres players it doesn't, they have a more merged range. Lets say that a normal sized c-bet that I:

Check/call with all my top pairs, overpairs, some weaker pairs and some draws. Also mix in a few traps with 2-pair+.
Check/raise with my most of my 2-pair+ hands and some draws
Check/fold with my air and some weaker pairs.

How do I adjust that range agaist the small c-bet size? I feel extreamly exploitable here. I can move some strong top pairs, more draws and some air into the check/raise catagory, float more with weaker draws and hands like "2 overs". But then my calling range becomes very weak which they do exploit. When calling the flop, they will sometimes slow down and check back the turn with showdown hands, and sometimes bet 80-150% with hands like top pair+, draws and some air. They can do it very efficiently against my weak range.

How would you conuter this phenomena?
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Old 02-23-2017, 01:40 PM   #2
allinonriver
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Re: Counter stratergy against very small c-bet sizes

depends what they're betting with
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Old 02-24-2017, 01:08 AM   #3
BigBadBabar
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Re: Counter stratergy against very small c-bet sizes

i play mainly limit games, but i imagine a lot of the theory and overall strategic considerations are the same in both limit games and big bet games

do you ever donk flops or checkcall flop donk turn? if so, do you balance?

in limit games for the past few years we've been seeing a lot more strong players moving toward GTO/balanced styles (which means a lot more checking back, donking, checkcall donking, and all the other lines that used to be pretty uncommon among winning regs) and i know that this has been happening for a while in big bet games too (perhaps even longer than in limit games).

you guys have a big variable though that limit players don't don't have - the betsizing. as i understand it, nl bet sizes used to be pretty standardized and common - half pot, 2/3 pot, pot, whatever - but you didn't see much 1/5 pot or overbets or whatnot. now you're seeing a lot more new stuff, as you mention, so i'd think your approach will need to become more nuanced as well.

depending on your current strategy/approach, you may need to re-work some things - both big-picture stuff and details stuff. that might mean adjusting your exploitative approach, or moving more toward a gto-based approach, or maybe adjusting your frequencies or buckets if you already play a gto-centered style

(nl players please let me know if i butchered any of this )
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Old 02-25-2017, 09:29 PM   #4
lolposting2016
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Re: Counter stratergy against very small c-bet sizes

Vs small bets you get a price that incentivizes you to call w more of your range. Vs big bets you call less of your range.
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Old 02-26-2017, 01:07 PM   #5
WCGRider
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Re: Counter stratergy against very small c-bet sizes

Don't fold much and get to see lots of cheap turns
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Old 03-07-2017, 08:11 PM   #6
ZockenRobot
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Re: Counter stratergy against very small c-bet sizes

Should PF range change in light of being able to see turn more frequently? More SC less high card?
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:21 AM   #7
JohnDoeMonaco
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Re: Counter stratergy against very small c-bet sizes

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider View Post
Don't fold much and get to see lots of cheap turns
Exactly. for instance, if you are calling with a linear range, instead of calling with top 55%-85% of your range facing a half pot cbet, try to call top 35%-85% of your range facing a quarter pot cbet.
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:07 AM   #8
riverdog
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Re: Counter stratergy against very small c-bet sizes

If you simply call with a broader range, you become easily exploitable.

Figure out your strategy against:

1/4 pot cbet

1/3 pot turn

2/3 pot river

that's a simple, cheap line which exploits the tendency to call with a broader range without adjusting the rest of your line

would add the checkraise small into your distribution. cbet 1/4 pot checkraise to 2x pot - so $100 pot, cbet $25, checkraise to $175 or $200. opp will likely instinctively float a bunch there, so prepare the checkraise turn line and do the same again.

also if that line bothers you it's probably smart to do unto other the same way.
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:29 PM   #9
FindNameHere
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Re: Counter stratergy against very small c-bet sizes

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider View Post
Don't fold much and get to see lots of cheap turns
and then donk for 25% of pot :P
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Old 06-11-2017, 04:37 AM   #10
Ibreakgames
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Re: Counter stratergy against very small c-bet sizes

Not only is calling cheaper so is RAISING. If you want to figure out what he's doing, put in some info raises. Sounds Phill Hellmuth-esque but it works way better than calling and letting him exploit you with small bets.

Not to mention we'll steal a lot of pots
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:15 PM   #11
TexasPokerCards
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Re: Counter stratergy against very small c-bet sizes

Does anybody see the strategic benefit of these small c bet sizing? I think it's important to understand what opponents are trying to accomplish with this before finding an effective counter strategy. In a vacuum, bc I think because we are being offered such attractive odds to continue we should play this like a limit hold em spot. A good strategy would be to peel very light. I.e. Any 4 out draw or better. Balance by cr semi bluffing decent draws and big made hands. His turn check back frequency should be a guide as to how to proceed with weak made hands.
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Old 06-20-2017, 02:00 PM   #12
sambraun
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Re: Counter stratergy against very small c-bet sizes

Dont fold too often and look at those cheap turn cards
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