Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > No Limit Hold'em > High Stakes PL/NL

High Stakes PL/NL Discussions about high stakes pot-limit and no-limit hold'em (10-20 and up)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-20-2009, 04:59 PM   #1
stranger
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2
Always raising on button heads-up

When I review some of the hands played headsup among the Big Players on Full Tilt (durrr, Antonius, Ivey, Hansen, etc), etc, it seems that the button makes a standard raise EVERY time.

Firstly... am I interpretting wrongly? Perhaps it's just that the hands I see are the big pots that get commented on on the net, so it's only these that are always raised, not every pot.

I understand that IF you're up against an opponent who will fold to a button raise not-infrequently, then raising every time increases profit. Or if you're against an opponent who doesn't himself always raise when he has button, then your constant raises make sense, since you're essentially playing at higher stakes when you have the position advantage.

But since this is all so well understood by the big players, it seems (from the hands I end up seeing) that almost always the button raises, and the other player does NOT fold. If this is the case on every or nearly every hand, it doesn't seem to accomplish anything.

If we know in advance that our constant button raises WON'T be met with folds, and WILL be met by opponent following suit and always raising when he has the button... isn't this game of pre-flop raising changing nothing, except essentially raising the stakes of the already-high-limit game?

That is, if the blinds are 500/1000, and on every hand the button raises to 3000 and always gets (at least) called, isn't this the same as playing 1500/3000?

Is this sort of like a "prisoners dilemma," in which the pre-flop raising described above helps no-one when both players do it... but both players continue doing so, because if you stop the "blind" pre-flop button raising and your opponent doesn't stop also, that'd put you at disadvantage?

Thanks,

Stuart (RandomStu)

Last edited by mikech; 03-21-2009 at 12:10 AM.
RandomStu is offline  
Old 03-20-2009, 05:27 PM   #2
veteran
 
Huggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tag on the streets Lag under sheets
Posts: 2,465
Re: Always raising on button heads-up

wat? do you even play poker?
Huggy is offline  
Old 03-20-2009, 06:29 PM   #3
old hand
 
rmoriar1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: See you chumps on top
Posts: 1,435
Re: Always raising on button heads-up

so this is what you've been contemplating the last 6 years
rmoriar1 is offline  
Old 03-20-2009, 06:36 PM   #4
Pooh-Bah
 
NemoInDeniaL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Irvine
Posts: 4,430
Re: Always raising on button heads-up

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmoriar1 View Post
so this is what you've been contemplating the last 6 years
+1
NemoInDeniaL is offline  
Old 03-20-2009, 10:05 PM   #5
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 3,977
Re: Always raising on button heads-up

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmoriar1 View Post
so this is what you've been contemplating the last 6 years
LOL
FionnMac is offline  
Old 03-20-2009, 10:08 PM   #6
banned
 
le yawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: totally brokesville
Posts: 174
Re: Always raising on button heads-up

o stuart how are u so random u crazy
le yawn is offline  
Old 03-20-2009, 10:09 PM   #7
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
LucidDream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: flippin it on em!!
Posts: 7,268
Re: Always raising on button heads-up

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmoriar1 View Post
so this is what you've been contemplating the last 6 years
sometimes it takes time to put all ur thoughts into words.
LucidDream is online now  
Old 03-21-2009, 01:50 AM   #8
centurion
 
Vinh Diesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 148
Re: Always raising on button heads-up

wow, are you leveling?
Vinh Diesel is offline  
Old 03-21-2009, 02:31 AM   #9
old hand
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,911
Re: Always raising on button heads-up

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmoriar1 View Post
so this is what you've been contemplating the last 6 years
wow
d2themfi is offline  
Old 03-21-2009, 02:38 AM   #10
journeyman
 
its a lock's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: out to lunch
Posts: 239
Re: Always raising on button heads-up

dont listen to them stu u raise ur heart out!!

Last edited by its a lock; 03-21-2009 at 02:41 AM. Reason: actually only read two paragraphs.... my neck started jolting away from the screen
its a lock is offline  
Old 03-21-2009, 02:55 AM   #11
banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 514
Re: Always raising on button heads-up

OP, this has actually been discussed already here
Huck Cheever is offline  

Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2009, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
Message Boards and Forums Directory