what a disgrace

Kinda hard to miss the Russian Federation with close to 142 million people.

A+++ work on the investigation/report. I hope you all get your money back.

Way to give UK poker bad name... Sigh gl all recovering funds.

I don't get it. Are they colluding to light as much money on fire as fast as possible? Even if they're sharing hole cards all of these plays just seem awful.

I'm not saying there isn't something sketchy going on here. Everything else you describe seems pretty weird. But they're just playing terribly in the hands you posted.

For instance, the T4o call:

He's getting 2 : 1 if he knows the other guy is folding.

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

6,267,032,640 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
t4o	29.58%	1,804,410,096	99,065,148
25%	70.42%	4,363,557,396	99,065,148

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

8,835,488,640 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
t4o	31.64%	2,725,607,784	140,251,488
35%	68.36%	5,969,629,368	140,251,488

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

11,157,372,864 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
t4o	33.11%	3,587,147,916	214,970,904
44%	66.89%	7,355,254,044	214,970,904

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

dead cards: a2

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
t4o	33.15%	193,125	11,556
38%	66.85%	395,319	11,556

He'd need to think you were shoving 44% over doosh's open for the T4o call to be good. It can get down to 38% if we assume doosh is folding a2o, which is about the best blockers he could have and remotely consider folding, but of course if their team has you on shoving 38%, he'll just call you with A2o instead of letting his teammate with T4o try to chase you down.

The call with T4o is bad but they are not genius and cant do all the math at instance.

They are not perfect at cheating but its the intention that counts.

The spot for this call seems right, dooshcom has to fold on button, odds are about right, so benkaremail calls.

He would never call if it was a fair game where a player on the button calls most of the time too.

douchecom

Both combined actually make a bit of sense. Doosh will be on bu when his potential accomplice is in BB and if 4 handed when his accomplice is in BU doosh is in BB so they would have the same situation 1/2 instead of 1/3 in 3 way for example.

But if they were not colluding I would not blame doosh on chosing always this certain seat position. It is hard to tell what the best seat is: say benkaremail calls to loose do you want to sit in sb or in bu when hes in bb - difficult to answer. If hes calling too loose and also pushing too loose of which do you want to take advantage of, do you want to sit in bu/sb when he bb or do you want to have direct position - again difficult to answer. So depending on what people think seat choices can look somewhat random.

Them always playing together and them deviating from their normal play looks kind of fishy though.

if they're cheating, not genius level is an understatement. these plays look really terrible.

let's look at the 97/t8 hand:

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

7,582,082,112 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
97o	34.36%	2,560,931,460	88,913,844
30%	65.64%	4,932,236,808	88,913,844

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
97o	23.55%	139,332	4,891
30%	49.42%	291,831	10,380
t8o	27.03%	158,457	8,365

These numbers don't change a lot if we make sb a bit looser or tighter. At first glance, getting almost 3 : 1, it looks like the overcall is reasonable. However, if they're playing as a team, a bunch of the equity that the T8o overcall realizes is stolen from the 97o, so actually as a team they do much worse by calling T8o than not.

I love the way two of the names who have signed the OP are roomates and have ALOT more history of playing together than the accounts named in this thread....

which two are room mates?

When It's HU allin, SB has 12,473$ equity (19kpot*65.64%)

When it's 3-way, SB has 11,650$ equity (49.42%*15k + 65.64%*8k)

Oops, that seems to have killed the discussion!

dooshes gonna doosh(com).

holy ****, al those so called pokerpro's cheating lately, kinda ****ed up.

Just give pokerstars the monopoly in online poker And let the FBI close all other sites. Stars knows how to handle these scum players.

Hi all,

As a Director at 888 and acquaintance to several of you, I want to update you with what actions are being taken by 888poker to look into this investigation. 888poker takes all fraud/collusion reports very seriously and have rigorous protocols to address any possible fraudulent activity that is reported. In regard to the activities highlighted in this thread, 888poker is looking into all the reported allegations and all parties determined affected will be notified individually of what actions are being taken.

888poker protocol is as follows:
• All accounts that are proven to be part of fraudulent activity have and/or will be blocked and the owners of those accounts will be notified. *Some accounts are still pending further investigation before final action will be taken
• Any funds that remain in Blocked accounts will be held
• If any game wins/losses are determined fraudulent, adequate compensation to effected players will be made if applicable.

To uphold the anonymity of all parties involved, further details of accounts, players and etc. cannot be publically reported. If 888poker determines that your account has been involved or effected, you will be notified directly.

I would like to thank all our players for alerting us about their concerns and we will continue to take all reports seriously and take appropriate action.

Gareth Edwards, Director at 888poker

.6564 * 19 000 = 12 471.6

(.4942 * 15 000) + (.6564 * 8 000) = 12 664.2

Riiiiight.

Sorry 888 rep you all line your pockets and you don't care

Names please?

If the guy with 97o off calls, their team has 34.36% chance of winning.

If both guys call, they have 50.58% chance of winning.

So their chances of winning is 16.22% better if the both guys call.

I am fairly tired, so I did not do the equity calculations, but at first glance it would seem that they are doing better by their team play.

I agree with your calculation.

But the point is that overcalling with T8o vs 97o and one normal range is much more profitable than overcalling vs two normal ranges.

And every time they overcall they have hands like this, not 97o and T7o or JT and QT.

Great investigation, guys!

@feruell: Pls check your PMs!

interesting time ... to live and play poker

I played high stakes push fold on Pacific for a bit. Did some math and figured out what my hourly was assuming nobody was cheating and then did it assuming people are cheating and decided to stay away.

Thanks for spending so much time to out these guys. I hate cheaters.

I'm guessing their money is going to get confiscated and not returned to any players.