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Old 08-18-2005, 01:24 AM   #1
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50/100 hand against mahatma at UB

UB 50/100 NL Hold'em

Random Player A is at seat 0 with $4648.
Hero is at seat 3 with $12034.50.
Random Player B is at seat 5 with $13425.
Random Player C is at seat 6 with $9100.
Mahatma is at seat 7 with $17187.
The button is at seat 5.

Preflop: Hero is CO with K A
UTG Folds, Hero raises to $350, Button folds, SB folds, BB (Mahatma) calls

Flop: ($750) 10 K 3
Mahatma checks. Hero bets $500. Mahatma calls.

Turn: ($1750) 5
Mahatma bets $1700. Hero calls.

River: ($5150) A
Mahatma goes all-in for $14587. Hero?
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Old 08-18-2005, 01:31 AM   #2
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB

forgive me, but is this even worth discussing?

insta-call
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Old 08-18-2005, 01:34 AM   #3
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB

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forgive me, but is this even worth discussing?

insta-call
What do you put him on that calls flop and turn and pushes river that makes this an insta-call...?
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Old 08-18-2005, 01:38 AM   #4
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB

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forgive me, but is this even worth discussing?

insta-call
What do you put him on that calls flop and turn and pushes river that makes this an insta-call...?
I know this is gonna sound idiotic, but my reasoning is basically "I have top 2 against mahatma, who is very capable of doing this with very wide range of hands from bluff, worse 2 pair, and set" if he has a set, so be it but my hand is likely to be the favorite.

I guess a lot still depends on how hero/mahatma were getting along in previous hands though.
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Old 08-18-2005, 01:59 AM   #5
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB

an aside: do you ever raise turn here?
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Old 08-18-2005, 02:04 AM   #6
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB

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an aside: do you ever raise turn here?
whenever you bet/raise, think if it'll get a call from worse hands or fold out better hands. if it does neither, then it's a bad bet/raise.
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Old 08-18-2005, 02:34 AM   #7
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB

Depends. Is Mahatma still tilting and bluff happy?
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Old 08-18-2005, 02:57 AM   #8
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB

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I know this is gonna sound idiotic, but my reasoning is basically "I have top 2 against mahatma, who is very capable of doing this with very wide range of hands from bluff, worse 2 pair, and set" if he has a set, so be it but my hand is likely to be the favorite.
I don't think your reasoning sounds idiotic at all. I'm sure I'd call there, but that might be the result of my aversion to laying down big hands. I'm just curious why you didn't put QJ (the nuts) in his range. Would he not play QJ in this manner, too?
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:07 AM   #9
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB

If this is from this week Id prob. fold, as this is usually the nuts, last week this meant big bluff LOL.
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:07 AM   #10
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB

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I know this is gonna sound idiotic, but my reasoning is basically "I have top 2 against mahatma, who is very capable of doing this with very wide range of hands from bluff, worse 2 pair, and set" if he has a set, so be it but my hand is likely to be the favorite.
I don't think your reasoning sounds idiotic at all. I'm sure I'd call there, but that might be the result of my aversion to laying down big hands. I'm just curious why you didn't put QJ (the nuts) in his range. Would he not play QJ in this manner, too?
diddn't even see that because I'm a bad reader. he could very well play QJ in this manner, it's mahatma.. who knows damn it.

it must be cool being a "he could have anything guy". but sadly, I'm afraid to try out his style at fear of losing money. I wish there were a more text book approach to learning the style.
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:09 AM   #11
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB

When hero calls 1700 on the turn what does mahatma think hero has?..
AK would be likely here i think. Maybe K-Q, K-J (or weaker), but isnīt better to make a reraise on turn in that case as to define his strenght (if mahatma calls hero is obviusly beat and can fold no matter what mahatma bets on the river but can get a check from tp or ak) and prevent mahatma from valuebetting the river and thus get a cheaper showdown? With A-K hero can call turn with the idea of calling a pottsize bet, raising a small bet (for value) or valuebetting a check on the river.

I assume mahatma knows this..

The other hands mahatma considers is K-10 and 10-10
If hero made a set of tens, then there is likely a raise on the turn from hero. (Or if mahatma makes these allin plays on river often a call would be better, but then the call on the river with ak would also be auotomatic. Iīm assuming mahatma doesnt make the plays often enough).
Anyway these hands are far more less likely than A-K, K-Q, K-J. (And if mahatma holds Q-J itīs more likely for him to believe hero holds A-K)

I think therīs a good chance mahatma interprets the turn call as A-K and with that in mind itīs hard to pull a big bluff. Is he capable of bluffing though he suspects u have A-K?

Conclusion: Mahatma has Q-J making a straight
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:13 AM   #12
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB

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it must be cool being a "he could have anything guy". but sadly, I'm afraid to try out his style at fear of losing money. I wish there were a more text book approach to learning the style.
I'm not a cash-game NL expert, but folding top-2 to a player known for his proclivity to overbet a wide variety of hands seems to be a huge mistake to me. If people regularly fold AK to Mahatma in this spot, I'm beginning to understand why he's so succesful. I liked it that you suggested insta-call, since I expect posters on this forum to say "fold" as often as "call" and the latter makes more sense to me.
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:14 AM   #13
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB

FOLD
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:18 AM   #14
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB

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FOLD
Good point. In fact, why even play AK in the first place?
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:23 AM   #15
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB

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Conclusion: Mahatma has Q-J making a straight
I've never seen such a simple conclusion derive from such a convoluted analysis (culminating here: "Anyway these hands are far more less likely than A-K, K-Q, K-J. (And if mahatma holds Q-J itīs more likely for him to believe hero holds A-K)"

You're assuming a whole bunch of stuff about what's going on in Mahatma's mind and how he perceives your play, when all you need to concentrate on is this: You're against a guy who just made an allin-overbet into a pot where you hold top-2 pair. Your opponent is well known to push a wide variety of hands here, many of which are not the nuts and dont have you beat. I really don't understand how people can advocate a fold here.
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