I like this reasoning. My call button is huge here vs a loose donk that I may have induced into bluffing with a wide range of hands I beat

I don't really see how 1500 is for value when our hand is face-up KK QQ. Seems like he doesn't want a call here. So I call.


edit: actually it's a L/RR pot and you checked the turn to control the pot so i guess villain's thinking you're in call-any bet mode. I fold actually. We'd prolly be shown AA or JJ if we called.

shove pre vs loose donks

get $$

You realize he can make a set too, right?

board: 5c
Hand Equity
KK 18.16%
55 81.84%

i have an argument about the big river bet, obv ur hand is face up, u almost never have AA here (checked twice), so villain should know that A scares u. so since he bet very big on river, he is trying to bluff u off knowing u will have a hard time calling or he knows ur in check calling mode, and trying to get value with a real hand, which one is it? now i think about it, probly should call since he probly dont expet u to call that big of a bet with KK on A board. no?

Looks like AJ to me. Muck it.

As played call, and hope he doesn't have AJ.

Results?

I called his river bet and he showed 8Jd.

As played I think this is a call on river if your reasoning behind the check on turn was to add value to the hand. If this is the case then the entire reason for checking turn is so spewy villan with big stack will stab at river. I believe that if villian hit flop big he raises on flop and probably gets you to put your stack in with an over pair.

If you say he calls down a lot with bad hands and likes to bluff then you basically have two options on turn/river
1. Bet for value on ace (if he raises you fold, if he calls you can prob bet for value on river)
2. Check turn to add strength to hand with the thought of calling any bet on river.

Based on way you describe villian I actually like checking as you would think he would bluff quite a bit of hands or may think a hand like QJ/ KJ/J10 is good and will be trying to get value out of a range you beat.

Honestly by checking the turn you pretty much have to call this river against bluffy opponent.

I dont like your lines. It put you in this spot I feel the limp re raise is what I did 5 years ago with aa or kk. The flop bet to me says over pair the turn check when the ace comes to me screams kk maybe ak and small chance aaa then river he basically pots it. he either thinks the ace scares you and its a good bluff card or he hit the ace on the turn cause people call the limp reraise aq o+ aks maybe. I think I dump it

Its very hard to answer your question since I never agree with limping KK. It will put you in very tough situations post-flop where you'll have absolutely no clue where you are in the hand & depending on your actions post-flop, you'll be pretty much playing your hand face up. So in other words... you'll have no clue what he has & he'll know exactly what you have. That dosn't sound like a spot that I'd like to be in.

- NYtoCALI

I agree with what you are saying, but this question is coming from a game played at 5/10. So unless all of these people are just rich idiots & nobody thats playing actually knows what they're doing, then limping KK in a 5/10 game can only hurt you. And don't forget that we're not talking about a single person, we're talking about a whole table of idiots. But if you know of a 5/10 game where I can limp KK profitably (w/ out crazy rake), then please tell me & I'll hop on a flight there tomorrow.

- NYtoCALI

I'm pretty sure you can limp KK in any game and have it be profitable.

Maybe in a specific spot it may just be, but in a vacuum, you'll most definitely be losing money in the long run. Too often (especially if you are taking flops with multiple players), you'll have a very difficult time identifying where you are in the hand. The only time that I would consider limping KK pre-flop is in a heads up or blind vs. blind situation & even then I don't particularly like the play.

Can you satisfy my curiosity & explain to me how limping KK can possibly be profitable in a multi-way pot?

-NYtoCALI

You are confusing the words "profitable" and "optimal". You are meaning to say that limping KK isn't optimal because you will make more on average by raising it. Asdfasdf32 is saying that limping KK is profitable because KK is a monster hand, and you clearly expect to make money long term with your monster hands regardless of whether you limp them or not.