The entire AIM conversation can be made available upon request, but as this document is already fairly lengthy, I tried to just include information that was important.
-M@d
In January of this year, 369tbags asked me about being staked. He claimed he had 350k tied up on Full Tilt and was looking for a stake until Full Tilt came back. We worked out the details of the stake on Jan 12th, and I ended it on Feb 22nd.
At the beginning, when we started discussing the deal, I told him I was worried that he wouldn’t grind out of any possible makeup if he got his FTP roll back:
Me (8:35:59 AM):
Thing is I assume u have a lot of money locked up on Ftp.
Me (8:36:08 AM):
Ur not gonan want to grind for me once u get that money back
Me (8:36:13 AM):
If u have Mu.
He assured me, he would continue the stake until he was out of make up or buy out.
knapp2themax (8:36:38 AM):
i'm aware that's a concern of yours so i wanted to suggest something that would be beneficial for both parties to work something out
knapp2themax (8:37:13 AM):
i would be open to remaining playing under stake on lock after ftp reopens
Me (8:43:37 AM):
If you're willing to work something out where you'll allow me to stake you on Ftp or buy out for 100% Mu that would keep interested. Otherwise, probably not.
Me (8:43:54 AM):
Until you get out of Mu ofc.
knapp2themax (8:44:08 AM):
100% buyout is definitely fine
knapp2themax (8:44:25 AM):
ftp staking i wouldn't agree to
knapp2themax (8:45:22 AM):
i'm not going to screw you over.. i have a reputation and my own personal morals to uphold
Because of this, I was willing to discuss staking him. I knew he had solid results, and it seemed pretty +ev to me.
From 8:45am until 9:30am, we discussed details of the stake agreement. There were zero issues throughout the conversation.
Me (8:53:37 AM):
So okay, let me hear your propsoal on stakes and all that.
knapp2themax (8:56:35 AM):
i wasn't asking you to stake me for 1ks, at least yet
knapp2themax (9:05:45 AM):
in terms of stakes to start i'd like to play anything in the 200 and 300 range
knapp2themax (9:23:38 AM):
so i'm thinking a 5k initial roll to play the 200-300 level normal and turbo speeds to the amount they run and play sts between 122-183 until i show a profit with a 50/50 all inclusive cut on profit and rakeback all inclusive
Me (9:29:33 AM):
Everything you propose on Lock is reasonable.
After 45 minutes of discussing the details and working out all of the arrangements, I then say:
Me (9:31:30 AM):
kool, one thing is.
Me (9:31:41 AM):
I think I can cashout for you on Lock
Me (9:31:48 AM):
That's obv. a big issue for U.s. players
knapp2themax (9:32:05 AM):
ok
Me (9:33:05 AM):
Typically I take a fee but I mean if this deal works well and we're both making money won't be necessary. As for the buyout tho just so we're clear you can end the deal whenever you aren't in Mu anymore
knapp2themax (9:33:21 AM):
ok
Me (9:33:22 AM):
But say Ftp comes back and you likely won't be interested in the deal, you will buy out immediately?
knapp2themax (9:33:28 AM):
yes
We then had more discussions for another Hr+ before it was brought up again. During that time we discussed getting him rakeback and getting his account set up.
Me (9:47:33 AM):
k, ya, I mean I'm prepared to offer you a deal on Lock. With all the clauses we discussed such as buyout.
Me (9:49:56 AM):
But just know before hand there is a possibility I decline offering you a higher deal.
knapp2themax (9:50:09 AM):
ok
Me (9:53:24 AM):
Oh, are we on the same page this is 50/50+Mu with the buyout/exclusivity clauses and such?
knapp2themax (9:53:34 AM):
yes
Me (9:55:15 AM):
k, then we have a deal. Just need to get Rb setup I guess.
Me (10:48:37 AM):
Keep track of your Mu # also
Me (10:48:39 AM):
I will do it
Me (10:48:51 AM):
But like it's really annoying that stakes always think it's lower for w/e the reasono
Me (10:48:55 AM):
And I gotta backtrack.
knapp2themax (10:48:58 AM):
i don't plan on having Mu
Me (10:49:05 AM):
I like that plan =)..
Me (10:49:16 AM):
Oh, hey, we forgot to go over how to profit chop.
Me (10:49:24 AM):
U have anything in mind?
knapp2themax (10:49:57 AM):
well what would work best for me is if you could cash out for me and you could send my portion to my bank somehow
knapp2themax (10:50:04 AM):
if that can be done someway
knapp2themax (10:50:13 AM):
in away that avoids fees etc.
knapp2themax (10:51:05 AM):
how long do transfers take btw?
Me (10:51:08 AM):
No, it's about $16 on my end. $25-30 on urs
Me (10:51:11 AM):
Unlimited amount
Me (10:51:19 AM):
But I mean ppl sell Lock at 90c/$1
Me (10:51:22 AM):
It's tough to move it off.
knapp2themax (10:51:31 AM):
right i know
Me (10:51:47 AM):
Should be 3-5 business days
Me (10:51:53 AM):
But ppl have been receiving in 1 day
Me (10:52:07 AM):
I need to register your account which takes 1 day tho
Me (10:52:31 AM):
I can cashout for you but my cashouts aren't instant either
Me (10:52:33 AM):
Takes few days
This was the end of any discussion that initial day of the stake agreements. Once again, that was January 12th.
On January 17th, we discussed our first chop. The first split was going to be:
knapp2themax (12:53:47 AM):
so we're going to be at 1390.94 a piece
He gave me his bank info for me to wire to him.
On January 19th, he finally had his ability to transfer set up, and he sent me the funds.
Me (12:56:20 AM):
Okay, got it.
Me (12:56:25 AM):
I'll initiate wire in a few hours.
Sat, Jan 21:
Me (11:26:42 AM):
Hey, u get the wire yet?
knapp2themax (11:26:59 AM):
yes i did.
knapp2themax (11:27:02 AM):
thanks so much bud
knapp2themax (11:27:09 AM):
hopefully we will be doing many more
On Monday, January 23, he wanted to chop profit again:
knapp2themax (8:58:34 AM):
if you're here.. i'm +2k on the stake so we can split if you'd like..
Me (9:16:55 AM):
Ya, I was thinking eveyr 2k we could chop.
Me (9:17:12 AM):
If you wanted.
knapp2themax (9:17:19 AM):
yeah right on
Me (12:40:31 PM):
k, got xfer. I'll do the paypal now.
Me (1:08:34 PM):
U should have the money.
knapp2themax (1:14:21 PM):
yeah i got it.. it's a pending balace
On January 25th, we had a slight issue regarding him sitting above his normal buy-in. This is the first time we had any issues at all:
Me (5:31:56 AM):
I thought you said you would rediscuss with me if you wanted to mvoe up?
knapp2themax (5:32:18 AM):
if you don't want me playing a donk like this
Me (5:33:05 AM):
I didn't say that but I think you def. should of tried to talk to me first.
knapp2themax (5:33:31 AM):
330s were part of the original deal
knapp2themax (5:33:39 AM):
I began playing at lower stakes than the terms of the deal
Me (5:33:50 AM):
Ya, ur sitting 500 tho
knapp2themax (5:34:02 AM):
I was waiting for the donk I was playing
Me (5:34:54 AM):
I understand why you did it. I'm just pointing out u should still have let me know.
knapp2themax (5:35:11 AM):
you weren't online
knapp2themax (5:35:16 AM):
it's not as though i'm deep in makeup
knapp2themax (5:35:20 AM):
it's game selection
Me (5:36:20 AM):
Right, look I'm not trying to make a big deal out of this but I still def. think u should of just left me an offline message at least.
Me (5:36:54 AM):
And in the future you will be doing this?
knapp2themax (5:37:24 AM):
dude don't talk down to me
Me (5:37:48 AM):
Are u okay?
knapp2themax (5:37:59 AM):
I'm picking a +ev spot
Me (5:39:02 AM):
That doesn't justify it imo. I feel like we might have a problem here.
knapp2themax (5:39:14 AM):
that's fine
knapp2themax (5:39:42 AM):
If you have a problem let me know
Me (5:40:07 AM):
Well, I feel like there's one now.
Me (5:40:16 AM):
You feel that I am talking down to you which I'm not trying to do.
knapp2themax (5:40:21 AM):
yeah there is because you're talking to me as though I'm your bitch
knapp2themax (5:40:50 AM):
I've been very respectful to you and you're talking to me in a very condescending tone as though I'm beneath you
knapp2themax (5:41:05 AM):
I gave you a good enough deal as is
Me (5:43:36 AM):
I'm your backer and I have priority on what limits you get to play. We discussed a deal and we both agreed to it. I don't see how I'm out of line for pointing out you're playing 500's not agreed upon the deal. I am not trying to be disrespectful/condescending but if it comes off that way I apologize.
The conversation calmed down after that. For the record, I made sure not to miss a single comment back and forth between the two of us during that exchange. To this day, I’m shocked in regards to his attitude during that discussion.
On Jan 27, we processed another cash-out. I don’t have the exact numbers in the aim convo, but it went smoothly:
Me (4:37:04 AM):
Few things. We're on national holiday so you probably won't get the money until Sunday or Monday Us time.
Me (4:37:21 AM):
Also haven't received xfer but I'm sure I will in the morning.
knapp2themax (4:37:32 AM):
that's fine, not a big deal, thanks for the heads up
Then, he wanted to rediscuss the terms of the deal. Remember we are 15 days into the stake at this point:
Me (4:39:54 AM):
Anyways, what did you want to rediscuss with the deal.
knapp2themax (4:40:26 AM):
I want to discuss the profit splitting
knapp2themax (4:40:40 AM):
I think I should get more than 50%
The conversation went fine. We debated back and forth, but it was calm. After quite a bit of debate back and forth:
knapp2themax (6:33:23 AM):
but I'm willing to agree to 60/40 right now for the fresh stake
knapp2themax (6:33:30 AM):
here going forward until we split again
Me (6:43:57 AM):
Ya, I can agree to that. Only thing is did you finally redeem the points with the last chop? If not I feel that should be split 50/50
Me (6:44:06 AM):
But everything going forward can be 60/40.
That was the end of that conversation.
On Jan 28, he was ready for another cash-out:
knapp2themax (10:47:19 AM):
we're going to split now
Me (10:47:52 AM):
Sure
knapp2themax (10:48:41 AM):
i'm up 3394.91
Me (10:48:50 AM):
k
knapp2themax (10:49:07 AM):
so my 60% comes out to 2036.95
Me (10:50:01 AM):
Yep, I have the same.
Then, shortly after, we had another issue. On Lock, along with daily rakeback, you also receive points you can cash in. I had asked him for his point update several times. He kept telling me, “he would get it for me”. Then, the following ensues:
Me (10:51:03 AM):
And in regards to the points?
knapp2themax (10:52:36 AM):
dude i haven't converted the points, i'm not concerned about that i'm concerned about making bank
Me (10:54:23 AM):
Well, I don't mean to annoy you about it. But you said you'd get it done yesterday. And reason I wanted the point total was because your previous points were supposed to be split 50/50.
knapp2themax (10:55:06 AM):
alright man i've turned your 3k into over 14 so it hasn't been a priority of mine to worry about our portions of $300 a piece
knapp2themax (10:55:49 AM):
it's nickle and diming to the max
knapp2themax (10:56:50 AM):
kind of rude imo
Me (10:57:11 AM):
I guess if you want to look at it like that. I don't see it that way at all.
knapp2themax (10:57:24 AM):
obviously not
Me (10:57:58 AM):
I don't see how I'm out of line at all. Just getting the #'s correct.
Me (10:58:30 AM):
If you want to accuse me of being cheap that's fine. I have no problem with that.
knapp2themax (10:58:38 AM):
it's not a matter of who's in line or not, it's a matter of etiquette
Me (11:00:33 AM):
Again I feel differently. You don't seem to like the way I'm handling this deal it seems.
Me (11:00:47 AM):
Like before how you felt I was talking down to you and now with this.
knapp2themax (11:00:48 AM):
I feel like I'm filing taxes with the IRS
Me (11:01:33 AM):
I mean that's the hassle of getting backed.
knapp2themax (11:01:37 AM):
we don't need drama over points
knapp2themax (11:01:42 AM):
no
Me (11:02:11 AM):
I'm not trying to cause drama. I'm just asking if you could get me those #'s. All you had to say was I haven't gotten to it.
knapp2themax (11:02:32 AM):
fine I'll send it to you soon
Me (11:02:42 AM):
That's all I ask.
That was the end of another conversation where he seems to become angered for no apparent reason.
A few days later, I found out Lock cashouts may be changing, and I didn’t know if I would be able to cashout for him anymore. He seemed fine at the time.
Me (5:28:57 AM):
For the past two weeks Lock hasn't had cashout options for me. So I've just keeping the money you're sending and wiring for you. They keep telling me thier cashout options would be available soon but if it isn't I think I need to wait until I cna cashout before I wire you again.
knapp2themax (5:41:42 AM):
are you saying after this 1?
knapp2themax (5:41:54 AM):
and thats fine.. i understand
knapp2themax (5:42:42 AM):
well idk hopefully it's not an issue
Me (5:43:57 AM):
Yes, after this one.
Same day, shortly later:
Me (6:18:17 AM):
So cashier is back up but this looks awful.
Me (6:18:26 AM):
My max withdrawl went from 100k to 2.5k.
Me (6:18:50 AM):
So unless that changes I won't be able to cashout for you anymore. Will do this last one tho.
knapp2themax (6:20:04 AM):
yeah doesnt sound good, have you talked to anyone with a similar experience
Me (6:22:02 AM):
No, but I mean it's all the same.
The Next Day, he mentions withdrawals to me:
knapp2themax (3:09:11 AM):
Thanks. and then later I want to discuss in detail your issue about withdrawals because I don't want to be grinding 24/7 if there may be an issue with whether or not I can get the money.. I went on a slight downswing (1200), since the last chop, which shouldn't be a good deal, just went on a real bad run of short term variance.. hopefully I should recoup it in 1 serious session
Me (4:31:34 AM):
As for the withdrawls I talked to a Lock rep and he said my limits will be up to 50k within the week.
Me (4:31:39 AM):
So if that happens we won't have an issue.
Me (4:31:48 AM):
Praying that is the case obv. Have 50k+ on there atm.
Me (4:31:51 AM):
Ya, will do.
knapp2themax (4:32:04 AM):
yeah i know
knapp2themax (4:32:09 AM):
i sympathize with that
Me (4:32:30 AM):
But I mean if I can't help you u can still move Lock at 90c-95c on 2+2. So u won't be grinding with play money exactly.
knapp2themax (4:32:36 AM):
the whole reason I have to play backed is because the amount of my $ in my full tilt account at the time of black friday accounted for 82% of my net worth
Me (4:32:43 AM):
Hopefully my limits are fine tho.
Then, a few days later, he thinks he might need to cashout soon. We discuss the still pending issue of Lock cashouts:
knapp2themax (3:11:18 AM):
i'm up a little on the new stake now, so if things go well we could be in a position to chop again soon so I wanted to ask if you're going to be able to send me a wire in that case
Me (6:53:28 AM):
Not yet
Me (6:53:51 AM):
Whenever they bump the new ecocard limits from 2.5k to 50k as promised.
knapp2themax (9:36:08 AM):
ok, do you have any idea when that may be?
Me (9:36:24 AM):
They said within the week.
knapp2themax (9:37:00 AM):
ok because otherwise my question was going to be how do you expect me to get my $
knapp2themax (9:37:12 AM):
but if it's really going to happen within the week, i'm content
Me (9:37:43 AM):
You sell it at the marketplace for 90-95c/$1.
Me (9:37:54 AM):
That's how most ppl in the U.s. get it off honestly.
knapp2themax (9:38:18 AM):
well i'm aware of that, but that's kind of a weird thing to do when you're being backed
knapp2themax (9:38:34 AM):
and that 10c/$1 isn't an amount that I'd want to eat
knapp2themax (9:39:22 AM):
I haven't received the most recent wire
Me (9:40:20 AM):
Ya, I totatlly understand that but don't know of other options.
Me (9:41:08 AM):
As for your wire you'll receive it soon I'm sure.
The following day, it is discussed some more:
knapp2themax (8:50:10 AM):
what are we going to do exactly the next time we chop
Me (8:51:11 AM):
Just so you know which funds are yours.
Me (8:51:14 AM):
If I can wire for you great.
Me (8:51:26 AM):
If not you'd have to cashout yourself throuhg lock or find other means to move it.
And, the day after that, Monday, Feb 6:
knapp2themax (10:46:48 AM):
i'm in a position to chop again so let me know what the deal is on your end in terms of your ability to send me a wire or whatever
knapp2themax (10:47:01 AM):
i'm not going to send a transfer until all that is sorted out
Me (10:47:43 AM):
Okay, nothing has changed since we last spoke.
Me (10:48:07 AM):
I will let you know when if and when it doesn.
knapp2themax (10:48:33 AM):
ok well hopefully it's soon
knapp2themax (10:49:04 AM):
if we're still in this situation a week from now i'm not going to be happy
On Friday, Feb 10, I think I have good news and mention to him:
Me (6:30:43 AM):
Hey.
knapp2themax (6:30:55 AM):
hey
Me (6:31:10 AM):
So I was corresponding with the Lock Ceo via e-mail few hours ago.
Me (6:31:38 AM):
They said they wanted to take away the Ecocard withdrawl option and I was thinking fml.
Me (6:32:20 AM):
Now I have 60-70k on there with no way to move it. But when I said that was my only withdrawl option and such she said she'll load money into that account and up my limits.
Me (6:32:38 AM):
Don't know what that means exactly via timeframe but I assume it will be soon.
knapp2themax (7:34:23 AM):
ok thanks for the information
knapp2themax (7:34:49 AM):
i haven't been in a rush to chop, but would like to do so sometime in the next week
A few days later, he asks about them again. It’s now Tuesday, Feb 14:
knapp2themax (1:26:56 PM):
any update on withdrawals?
knapp2themax (1:27:30 PM):
because i'm up 5k on the stake and would like to chop
Me (1:29:48 PM):
They processed my 2.5k cashout after 2 weeks or w/e. That doesn't really put me in a position to help you tho. I'll follow up on my limit increase.
Me (1:29:55 PM):
Btw, have you checked your cashier recently?
Me (1:30:05 PM):
They upped a lot of cashout methods except mine.
Me (1:31:20 PM):
They were saying U.s. cashout methods are a lot better and such.
Me (1:31:27 PM):
Some ppl even get 9k wires.
knapp2themax (1:31:37 PM):
maybe I should try to cashout?
Me (1:32:00 PM):
Well ya. If you have options.
knapp2themax (1:32:26 PM):
hmm they say bank wire is an option
knapp2themax (1:32:30 PM):
for me
Me (1:32:48 PM):
Well, there you go.
Me (1:32:56 PM):
Maybe try that?
knapp2themax (1:33:05 PM):
i guess i'm going to
Me (1:34:22 PM):
I think it's 1 free per month so maybe u want to save until u have more but ya I'm sure u cna figure that stuff out.
knapp2themax (1:37:13 PM):
what is a swift (bic) code
Me (1:38:16 PM):
Just something you need to identify your bank.
Me (1:38:21 PM):
Call them up and they'll give it to you.
That was Tuesday, Feb 14. 3 days Later, Fri Feb 17, I contact him:
Me (6:33:20 PM):
Hey, what did you decide to do?
knapp2themax (6:33:56 PM):
i haven't done anything
knapp2themax (6:34:03 PM):
because i don't know what my swift codes is
knapp2themax (6:34:08 PM):
code*
Me (6:34:23 PM):
Ahh, k
knapp2themax (6:34:37 PM):
you don't have the ability to cash me out still?
knapp2themax (6:35:03 PM):
also, do you know what the expected wait time would be if i decided to initiate a wire xfer cashout myself?
Me (6:35:11 PM):
No
Me (6:35:20 PM):
Eventually I may.
Me (6:35:28 PM):
But not atm.
knapp2themax (6:35:32 PM):
i don't want to initiate a wire xfer cashout on my end if I am going to be waiting for months
Me (6:35:40 PM):
I am moving 2.5k off every 3 days or so.
knapp2themax (6:35:46 PM):
I mean if I'm not able to cashout it kind of defeats the purpose of being backed
Me (6:35:51 PM):
Look in the forums maybe.
Me (6:36:02 PM):
Yes, I understand that.
knapp2themax (6:36:22 PM):
i'm working hard, making you quite a bit of money giving the small risk you've taken
knapp2themax (6:36:28 PM):
so i'd like to be able to cashout
knapp2themax (6:36:37 PM):
i understand external logistics because of the website
Me (6:36:51 PM):
So did you want to end the deal at least temporarily or something?
knapp2themax (6:37:14 PM):
not yet
Me (6:37:18 PM):
Ya, I mean as I said before if I could help you I would.
knapp2themax (6:37:21 PM):
I might be self sufficient soon
Me (6:37:37 PM):
Atm tho I still only have 2.5k.
knapp2themax (6:37:48 PM):
but i might be in line to play on my own after this chop and the 1 that follows
knapp2themax (6:37:53 PM):
unless you gave me a better deal
Me (6:39:21 PM):
Limits. I'm getting them every 2-3 days. So in a month or so I can maybe help you or ofc if I go on a huge downer. But I realize you would need something sooner.
knapp2themax (6:39:45 PM):
yeah i don't have that much offline
knapp2themax (6:39:55 PM):
and have bills
Notice how at the start of this talk he says “I don’t know what my swift code is”. This conversation is 3 days after we had discussed that he needed the swift code to cash out via wire. It takes a 3 minute phone call to your bank to get your swift code. Some banks even have them online.
On Wed Feb 22, we have our last talk:
knapp2themax (12:17:10 AM):
dude we got to talk about this cashout situation.. it's been about a month
Me (12:59:28 AM):
Hey, I'm heading out.
Me (12:59:41 AM):
And ya, like I have followed up with Rizen, Jenn.
Me (12:59:46 AM):
No responses on upping my limits.
knapp2themax (1:00:06 AM):
ok so are you saying I'm basically on my own in terms of cashing out
Me (1:00:09 AM):
And my 2.5k cashouts aren't even processing quickly so I just will not be able to cashout for you anymore.
Me (1:00:11 AM):
Right.
knapp2themax (1:00:11 AM):
because I'm not too happy about that
knapp2themax (1:00:18 AM):
if you understand my point of view on things
Me (1:00:33 AM):
Yes, obv. But it's kind of out of my hands.
Me (1:00:49 AM):
If you feel there's no longer any merit to continue the deal I obv. understand.
Me (1:01:09 AM):
You do realize that you can wire 9k every 2-3 weeks tho yourself right?
Me (1:01:15 AM):
I found out they process those in that time frame.
Me (1:01:36 AM):
But ya, it's not immediate cashouts.
knapp2themax (1:01:45 AM):
I don't think I should be held responsible/hostage for your own cashout issues.. they have nothing to do with me.. and for me to give you a 100% buyout of makeup clause in the beginning of our agreement of terms and when we specifically talked about who's taking risk/liability of $ involved makes it feel to me as tho it's a breach on your side
knapp2themax (1:02:12 AM):
I can't wait 2-3 weeks
Me (1:03:45 AM):
I mean you didn't stress this was a requirement and a must. And I guess depending on how I worded it was a breach in contract.
Me (1:04:01 AM):
Either way, maybe I'm in the wrong but no point in arguing it.
Me (1:04:04 AM):
What do u want to do?
Me (1:04:31 AM):
And I mean Lock ****ed me and I did nothing wrong., Circumstances changed that I had no control over. U have to realize that.
knapp2themax (1:04:33 AM):
well I'm up a lot and I've been patient about things
knapp2themax (1:04:37 AM):
It's a ****ty situation
Me (1:04:43 AM):
I think ur frustation is misplaced in that regard.
Me (1:04:54 AM):
They have been stalling me this entire month.
knapp2themax (1:05:06 AM):
I sympathize with your situation, don't get me wrong; but it has basically 0 bearing on me as someone being backed
Me (1:05:07 AM):
And I've been upfront with u in the beginning about that possibility as soon as I found out.
Me (1:05:39 AM):
Right, what do you expect from me tho?
knapp2themax (1:06:10 AM):
well i thought I'd be wired my $ after chops
knapp2themax (1:06:16 AM):
is what I expected really..
knapp2themax (1:06:27 AM):
it was my understanding of the original agreement
knapp2themax (1:06:43 AM):
and at least had some bearing on my offering the 100% buyout clause of makeup
Me (1:06:47 AM):
Right, I agree. But after the last chop I think I made it pretty clear I may be unable to.
Me (1:07:11 AM):
I'm assuming u want me to wire you this last chop as well?
knapp2themax (1:07:37 AM):
that is what would be ideal from my position
knapp2themax (1:07:44 AM):
I don't need all of it now
Me (1:07:49 AM):
I mean you really should of said something cause I mean I don't want to get all technical.
knapp2themax (1:07:56 AM):
but I do need to get 1500-2k in the next 10 days or so
knapp2themax (1:08:08 AM):
well I was being patient and waiting it out
Me (1:08:21 AM):
But I'm rpett ysure I said this may be an issue for us beg. of this month. And if u told me if you can't workout ur cashouts you would have to take on Lock that you may be stuck with.
Me (1:08:30 AM):
I may have wanted the option to end the deal.
Me (1:08:37 AM):
Ya, look it's not a big deal.
Me (1:09:14 AM):
I'm not trying to deferr blame too much. But just want you to realize my side of it as well.
Me (1:09:20 AM):
Okay, so how much do you want me to wire?
knapp2themax (1:09:29 AM):
the problem I have is when I offer a 100% buyout of makeup it's something that has some level of consideration for this type of a scenario
Me (1:09:38 AM):
Ya, okay. Look it's fine.
knapp2themax (1:09:44 AM):
and also when we discussed who's taking on liability/risk of $ in the event of something happening
Me (1:10:15 AM):
We'll end this deal effectively now and how much are you willing to wire for me? Are you willing to help me cashout?
Me (1:10:19 AM):
Like say you want 5k from me.
Me (1:10:29 AM):
Would u at least process a 5k wire to your own bank potentially.
Me (1:11:09 AM):
Cause it still speeds up the process for me moving money off.
knapp2themax (1:11:09 AM):
I'm up a lot on the deal
Me (1:11:25 AM):
I cna only process so much at a time.
Me (1:11:28 AM):
How much do you want me to wire?
Me (1:11:48 AM):
Right, but I didn't mean profit. But I guess u assumed.
Me (1:11:53 AM):
U know it's fine. hOw much do u want me to wire?
knapp2themax (1:12:08 AM):
well i can't give you a quick answer to that
knapp2themax (1:12:14 AM):
you're putting me on the spot a little bit
knapp2themax (1:12:20 AM):
to give a quick answer on something that's complicated
Me (1:12:57 AM):
Okay. I mean I guess I'll do 10k max. think tha'ts fair. If u want more I think that's asking too much.
Me (1:13:25 AM):
U should of def. made it clear you would hold me responsible for moving moeny off for u.
Me (1:13:34 AM):
If I couldn't get my cashouts worked.
Me (1:13:55 AM):
I mean think about it. Why would I even mention my cashout issues if I wouldn be held responsible anyhow.
Me (1:13:59 AM):
They don't affect you at all.
Me (1:14:35 AM):
But you know what it's fine. U've done right by me so although there's a bit of bad miscommunicaton and def. some grey area I'm fine with a compromise.
Me (1:15:10 AM):
I really would like to end this deal effectively now tho. And just do the #'s.
knapp2themax (1:15:25 AM):
what's your basis for ending it?
Me (1:15:34 AM):
I can't be responsible for Lock.
Me (1:15:40 AM):
If u told me this beginning of February.
Me (1:15:42 AM):
I may have ended it.
Me (1:15:46 AM):
Then, tbh.
knapp2themax (1:15:50 AM):
this is scummy imo
Me (1:15:58 AM):
How is it scummy?
knapp2themax (1:15:59 AM):
very scummyu
knapp2themax (1:16:15 AM):
you're responsible for lock? all i'm doing is printing you more $
Me (1:16:23 AM):
I disagree but you are entilted to your opinion.
Me (1:16:36 AM):
And I think most ppl would agree but let's not get into this.
Me (1:16:40 AM):
Ya, money I can't move off.
knapp2themax (1:16:51 AM):
I already have asked many people and they all saw it my way
Me (1:17:04 AM):
About me ending hte deal and it's scummy?
Me (1:17:09 AM):
I said I'd wire you 10k of ur share.
Me (1:17:14 AM):
U are up like 30k or something?
Me (1:17:19 AM):
Me ending the deal how is that scummy?
Me (1:17:30 AM):
We never set it for any amount of profit.
knapp2themax (1:17:37 AM):
after the considerations where i'd give you 100% buyout of makeup
knapp2themax (1:18:13 AM):
can't believe you're pulling something like this
knapp2themax (1:18:21 AM):
I'm going to put a lot of thought to things before I agree to anything
Me (1:18:25 AM):
Look, I don't think we made it clear I am even 100% responsible for cashing out your Lock funds. But Lock ****ed me and I'm trying to do the right thing.
Me (1:18:37 AM):
And cashing it out anyways.
Me (1:18:44 AM):
Even tho it puts me at like 70k Lock funds.
Me (1:18:50 AM):
And I'm moving 2.5k off every week or so.
Me (1:19:02 AM):
While my stakes and I are making money w/o being able to move it off also
Me (1:19:11 AM):
Now in terms of ending the deal.
Me (1:19:26 AM):
We never specified and am positive I had to continue it to any point.
knapp2themax (1:19:49 AM):
it's pretty much a hit n run on me
knapp2themax (1:19:55 AM):
giving me no prior notice
knapp2themax (1:20:03 AM):
to make proper arrangements to adjust
knapp2themax (1:20:13 AM):
it's like firing your best employee
Me (1:21:50 AM):
I didn't really get the memo that I had to continue to wire you funds even tho Lock has restricted my withdrawls to a almost non functionable extent.
Me (1:21:54 AM):
But you have made it clear today.
Me (1:22:22 AM):
And I mean, I don't exactly have that much in my bank account ether. No lie. But you know what, I'm trying to do the right htign and wire you w/e you have left on Lock that is yours.
Me (1:22:46 AM):
But for me to not want to move forward while still being responsible for wiring you your profit is std.
Me (1:23:03 AM):
I honestly, did not think this was a required condition.
Me (1:23:56 AM):
In terms of equittette and all that. You already don't like me much. I can tell. And I mean with how long I've been in the game backing I've seen way scummier things and have been rolled for hundreds of thousdands literally.
Me (1:25:18 AM):
So for me to do something you interpret as scummy is not a big deal to me. Even tho I disagree. And I mean. If u do not require me to be responsible for the cashouts I would not want to end the deal.
Me (1:25:43 AM):
If you would like to renegotiate the entire dela to continue we can do that as well.
Me (1:26:25 AM):
But I honestly feel like I was blindsided by "either what I unintentially agreed to or you misinterpretted". Either way man. I'm willing to wire you the rest of your Lock profit at this point in time.
Me (1:26:58 AM):
I know I'm rambling here and sorry for that. But ask any backer. Literally any. And they'll tell you they often just wait for a horse to get out of Mu and go you're cut.
Me (1:27:13 AM):
And often it's mtt horses with like 400k Mu.
Me (1:29:21 AM):
I gtg. And you have a lot to think about so you can get back to me.
Me (1:31:32 AM):
I will say this tho. With my history of backing 3+ years and having worked with 50+ ppl. I'm sure 95%+ would say I'm the best backer they've ever worked with and was first class all the way. So if you think I did a poor job on my end, backng is just not for you. I'd also be willing to open a thread or w/e and resolve this issue that way. But I know you hae little to no respect for the poker community in general.
Me (1:35:14 AM):
Plz at least get me the #'s asap at where we stand on the stake now. As I'm sure you have more than enough atm to take 100% of your profit and I don't want to be held responsible for being responsible for having to wire you additional chips.
knapp2themax (1:36:45 AM):
I'm going to read through everything you sent me
knapp2themax (1:37:41 AM):
way I see things is I've been very patient waiting for you to make the adjustment.. it's been almost a month now.. and now when I say I need to initiate a cashout you cut and run on me
Me (1:45:43 AM):
You're entilted to your opinion obv. But I don't agree with it. I feel like I'm being very fair and trying to do the right thing by wiring you the rest of your profit which >50% of backers out there would not do. Gtd.
knapp2themax (1:48:35 AM):
I expressed that I need to cashout and you went on a tirade against me that resolved itself in your saying you wanted to end the deal..
Me (1:50:19 AM):
I give you credit for being a very smart individual but I hope you give me credit for being one as well. And as I mentioned, I've been in the backing business 3+ years so I would know like to think I am better versed about backing equittette than you. End of the day tho man. I think you just gotta look it and ask yourself whether I'm breaching the contract at all by what I'm doing and whehter it's costing you money. Do u want some sort of compensation for me not giving you fair warning before cutting you? I feel like I didn't get fair warning about being responsible for cashing out your profit.
Me (1:50:44 AM):
Sorry if it came off that way. That's hte problem with talking online. I am pretty calm atm and am not an emotial person in general.
Me (1:51:40 AM):
I could of presented this another way but with the current terms of me having to be responsible for cashing out your profits on Lock I do not want to continue the deal.
Me (1:52:57 AM):
That's really all there is to it. I'm fine with you thinking I'm a terrible person tbh and never talking to me again. But end of the day that doesn't really entitle you to anything. If you actually feel u deserve compesnation for that then I'm open to hearing something but otherwise.
knapp2themax (1:53:27 AM):
I don't even understand how you get the impression of half the stuff you just said
knapp2themax (1:53:38 AM):
how this turns into you being some kind of terrible person..
Me (1:53:59 AM):
That is the vibe I get from you. U telling me I am cut and running.
knapp2themax (1:54:04 AM):
that's a quantum leap of jumping to false conclusions
Me (1:54:22 AM):
Maybe I shoulnd't use terrible person but u get what I'm saying.
Me (1:54:44 AM):
w/o word you want to assosicate someone with cut and running with.
knapp2themax (1:55:23 AM):
doesn't make sen-k for se to me
Me (1:58:12 AM):
Not sure which part you're referring to but I really do have to go. We need to finish this another time.
From this point forward, he refused to respond to any of my AIM messages or Emails. Along with the initial funds I put into the account, he was also up a fair amount of profit at this point.
In Emails I also offered to have this situation mediated by a player or group of people reliable in the 2+2 community. This offer was also ignored.
Two Plus Two
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