well...the players will come forward and give thier screenames (not their real names) and prove they can log on under those names. this will be a major downer for these players as assuredly the full wrath of the ******s at 2+2 will come down on them and they will have to clear their accounts before the complaints come in and will have to lose alot of time at the tables. thats why the bet needs to be big enough to make it worthwhile.

wait so your definition of "easy to prove" is that the players currently cheating will simply out themselves.....wtf.

i dont think they, nor anyone else, in the HS community consider what they do overt cheating or even cheating at all...i will go further and blow more minds, a player whom many of you consider "god" stakes players in these games and these horses sometimes play at the same table! ZZZZZOOOOOMMMMGGGGGG! say it aint true!

hypothetically i could stake 8 ppl at a 9 handed table and as long as each horse had no % of any other horse there would be nothing unethical about it.

it seems as tho you are trying to tarnish other peoples morals because you yourself seem to have a less then stellar moral code....

i dont really care to be honest cuz morality is all arbitrary anyways and im not going to get dragged into a debate about "right and wrong" but just cuz you view the world one way doesn't automatically mean everyone else does as well.

its one thing to say that there is a possibilty some players out of the thousands who play online might do some shady ****, and quite another to assert as fact that most if not all HS regs are cheating scumbags....

firstly i would say my moral code is beyond reproach. ive made a million bets in my life and always paid on time, in cash and in full. no one and i repeat NO ONE, who has ever done any sort of business with me no matter how small would ever say i was anything but up front, honest and reliable.

as far as other peoples morals i say...buyer beware.

as far as the 8 horses thing...you cant be serious. no matter what might happen in a laboratory, the real world is different. horses tend to "look out for each other"....although they are scumbag horses so they would probably be more interested in scamming their backer.

that makes no sense as a horse you only get money when YOU make money....so there would be absolutely no reason to do anything then play as optimally as you could for your own stack.....

also being super reliable in terms of betting and paying etc does not exclude you from having suspect morals.
one might never welch on a bet in their life and still cheat in games at every chance they got....i'm not saying you cheat or w/e just that your arguement doesn't hold water in that respect.

and a good way for YOU to make money is to collude w/ a fellow horse whos in the same boat...C'MON MAN!

lets put it this way...your in a game w/3 of ICEMANS horses who just came down form a profitable coinflipping escapade in the hotel room...theyre all gonna play each other straight up right...RRIIIIGGGHHHTTTT...

good straw man argument.
obv if something is possible then its 100% going to happen 100% of the time.
and im sure these "gods" of ours who crush the high stakes and can afford to back all these ppl are too stupid to realize when they're getting cheated.....
just for curiosity sake have you ever been wrong about anything?
serious question.

im wrong ALL the time...just ask my wife.

i figure if someone can be right 60% of the time they can rule the world. i put myself in the mid 50's.

also i hate typing and suck at posting so i come off bad.

In support of limon, it's pretty unfathomable for me to think that cheating doesn't occur at all levels of online poker. It's just way too easy, impossible to catch if they're smart, and has no real legal consequences even if caught. . . . I just assumed that everyone knew it was going on, and considered it part of the cost of doing business as online pros.

I just started frequenting the casino in my city after years of online play and everything here is pretty true and on the money. Would have been helpful to know before my first trip out instead of learning the hard way (although half is still new info to me, thnx)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger88
Maybe I'm naive, but I have a lot of friends who play a lot of different levels of online games and none of them besides the Dang bros share a bankroll and none of them have any kind of prop agreements to play games for hours until a fish sits. Or maybe they're all lying, I don't know. Option A seems more likely though.


I say, winning players will generally take +EV action. Can we end this 'argument' now?

To paraphrase Ray Zee, 'Your actions at the poker table ('and in business' my addition? dont know) will follow you around for the rest of your life.

+pi

u give them enough credit to be playing 100/200+ and not getting detected by site or anyone of collusion but they would be dumb enough to write that in a chatbox while they were actively cheating?

Limon, are you a better NL holdem player or a sports bettor? Do any attributes cross over from one to the other? Which carries more stress (if any)? Are you allowed to play blackjack anywhere?

im not a sports bettor. i errrr ... take bets and invest in a professional sports betting team. the attribute that crosses over is...always have a identifiable quantifiable overlay.

sports is more stressful in the beginning. once you get a stable of reliable losers (it takes a while) it becomes a godsend.

im only officially banned from harrahs properties and palm. as long as i play small (spread 25 to 500) i can still play anywhere no problem. if i treid to spread 25 to 1000 id get looked up quick unless its like new years eve or a fight night then you can blend in easier.

what's your blackjack story? why are you not allowed to play?

I say winning players already are making money legitimately so they don't need to resort to unethical practice to do so

pretty standard stuff...just think miniature low budget version of "million dollar blackjack". to make a living playing blackjack you have to bet big enough to get banned...then you play poker.

Of course not. I did not think they were cheating at that time. However, it did set the wheels in motion and was a pretty big, perception-changing moment for me personally. I began to realize that I was often sitting at the table with groups of people who knew each other outside of poker.

I can't blame anyone for not wanting to put serious money on a table with five other good players who all know each other. I'm not talking about "casually bumped into each other at last year's WSOP". . . we're talking about roommates, party friends, business partners, backers, etc. . . people that have each other on speed dial, AIM, etc. There's an entire world of off-the-felt relationships amongst the regs, and it's spooky -- or it damned well should be -- if you're not inside the circle.

This goes for live and online, btw. Superficially, it bears a tremendous resemblance to the pro poker scene in Vegas in the 80's. I've heard more than one firsthand account from HSNL old timers who played in those games, and their opinions of some of the biggest names in poker are less than favorable. Who would want to get in a live game like that, much less one online where you can't even see any of the other players??

As for collusion detection. . . only idiots would habitually squeeze the mark every chance they got. . .but savvy cheaters could easily juice a couple of pots/night, and nothing would look at all unusual to anyone observing even if they could see the cards. In big bet poker, it only takes one big hand per session for this stuff to make a huuuuuge difference.

As for propping. . . I don't even consider that to be dishonest. Chip used to start the games up in Bobby's room all the time with little or no edge against the other pro's: "You can't attract customers if the store isn't open." Running a game with no edge is just good business, assuming there is a decent chance a fish might sit down. This happens every day at high limit games across the country.

i don't really have an opinion on high stakes players cheating etc (i'd suspect that they don't though) but I think this is a really good post.

Limon - Great Post...

just sent you a private message let me know if it does not make it to you...

[QUOTE=limon;10107324]having a big iq doesnt get you much in life. they dont present you with a check after the test (unfortunately). in fact many of the skills necessary to score high on the exam are pretty worthless if your not willing to be a "slave to the man"...lol.

[QUOTE]

not true.infact,even your 2nd sentence isnt true, since people get scholarships forgood tests.

Loved the post (even if it did take me 30 minutes to read!)

Well done on reaching post number 2000.

And it took you 8 years to get there? Dont forget, like poker, you have a lifetime to play, and a life time to post

peace