I think your mistaken here. these games could run for the same reason huge bacarrat and blackjack games "run". based on what ive seen from the HS database stuff people post, no one has really established themselves as a consistent winner in these big HU games against other winners they just trade money around waiting for a donator...well...they could do that w/o the variance BUT the games might die. in fact its likely that many of the big HU matches pitting top players are just a SHOW. they are propping the games for people like yourself to stumble into. when you see all the "sick" things HS ROOMMATES do at the same table a little bell should go off...

how do you exploit a good player w/o making yourself exploitable? just make sure you always have position on him i guess...

what was the post where my logic was meh? was it one where i hadnt played for months? for me if i dont play for months my game gets really rusty. i post TO GET BETTER...do you never post to get better? why would you ever post a hand where you thought you did everything right?

thanks for the response...ill try to clarify a little

well i said that in the post didnt I?

to most, even those who should know better, the "long run" is completely intangible.

you know a guy who has been making 400k+ at LIVE 10/20nl for 3-5 years? if this is true the guy is the equivalent of a unicorn. besides, the gyst of that thread was that 200/hr is not reasonable...not even close.


i never said non abc stuff wasnt being done...i said theres about 20 minutes total out of a billion hands of recorded poker.

this has an element of truth...the difference between J6o and 45 in 99% of circumstances is a kuhnthair but msot people play 45cc every chance they can get and never play j6o without ever thinking why they do one and not the other, or neither, OR BOTH!

lol at your last two posts.

like honestly, you believe that these top players are 'propping' and not even actually playing each other? you don't believe that some of these players have an edge on others? seriously? and jesus, you sound like every other live donk i've ever heard talk about online poker here:

okay, so i've been playing at commerce 5/10 the past few days and i've been killing it. and not just because i'm running goot (which i am) but because the lineup for it is always very weak. is 5/10 comparable to 10/20 at commerce? or is it a whole different game?

limon Just watched HSP ep 9 and also some hands on high stakes thread. you're wrong about durrrr playing 95% abc poker. He's the best and you're not.

Other than that, nice post though

limon you are in my top 5 posters on 2+2

ty friend

Ding.

For me it was a couple years ago while railing one of the big 6max games. One guy says to another in the chat box: "hey, call me. I need to talk to you."

lol. this part your dead wrong about. unless you count hands that are played poorly as non-abc poker

this part you might be right about. the "i'm not" part you are assuredly 100% correct about.

you dont read well do you.

i didnt say all of the games fit this description but some assuredly do. im not sure the percentages no one is. even in the piddly games i play many of the young players routinely play off the same bankroll and take percentages of each other. IT MATTERS. they will also PROP a big game and actively recruit droolers ITS A SMART THING TO DO. i suppose youll learn the hard way.

also i get to speak w/ some of the bigger online players from time to time and this is a topic of contsant concern...Gus blew up about it a while back but many discuss it privately. in the gus situation i think he was wrong but the blow up was scratching the surface of something deeper.

this is more religion stuff..."none of my heroes could possibly be doing a logical thing to drum up action because they're like... my heroes! and why would these supermen ever take pieces of each other... WHY WHY!"

you must have alot of fun at magic shows.

oh, btw, im not a live donk...im an online and live donk.

after a few more days youll start to notice that about 20 players frequent both games. just follow the ones you like to the top section.

i love how you make a blanket statement, then when called out, try and question my reading abilities and say "oh well not all the big games are like that, that wasnt what i meant blahh blah backtrack."

i think you are really dense. they are not my 'heroes'.' i am friends with a number of these 'heroes' and know that they are ethical people who don't, and wouldn't do any of the shady stuff that you have proposed. you obviously are incapable of grasping such a concept since you derive a significant amount of your income by looking at other people's cards. perhaps i am being too harsh since you spend your days surrounded by scumbags and degenerates in a casino, but it really seems to me that your perception is just incredibly warped by your surroundings (and perhaps mine is by mine as well). outside of the mezmerize incident from last year or whenever, i have not heard a single instance of two players sharing action and playing in the same game versus a fish online. and outside of the dang brothers i am also not aware of any players that share a bankroll--if the 'piddly games' that you are referring too are live games then I really have no idea. yes, i am sure there are some improprieties that occur in today's online games, but your rhetoric makes it seem as if it is a regular and common event--and that is simply false.

cliff notes: the things limon says happen never happen except for the times they do happen.

Great post. Really very dead on on so many levels.

LMAO

cliff notes: ur an old idiot and incapable of logical debate. im done w this thread, all your fanbois can continue to slobber over your mediocre and outdated drivel.

There's a ****load of legitimate reasons why two regs might need talk to each other. But IF they were gonna collude, do you seriously think they would take the risk of discussing it in the chatbox with 500 railbirds watching?

were you actually stamping your feet as you posted this?

Maybe I'm naive, but I have a lot of friends who play a lot of different levels of online games and none of them besides the Dang bros share a bankroll and none of them have any kind of prop agreements to play games for hours until a fish sits. Or maybe they're all lying, I don't know. Option A seems more likely though.

what say ye to this?

good to see you back old friend...where have you been for all these minutes?

there's something irresistible about bantering w an idiot. as i suspected tho, you would completely skip the post and instead make some dim-witted remark. it's baffling to me how someone like you was ever respected on this forum lol.

I have trouble accepting that there aren't a significant number of HS players that aren't using unethical/cheating practices to gain unfair advantages in many types of games, both online and live.

I play in small stakes home games with a crew of players that play at a high level of poker skill but are obv still amateurs. Some have played in WSOP and cashed in WPT events, meh, no big deal, we'd all be scared money fish at HSNL cash games, for sure!

In various games I've played in I see colusion, soft-play, squeezing and protecting, undisclosed staking deals, and swapping of action, etc. These guys are pretty smart and aren't trying to be malicious. They may not even be cognizant of the fact that other equally smart players would view it as unethical to say the least.

Good players instinctively know the right moves to make (read: profitable) when the situation presents itself.

It's hard for me to imagine top tier pros aren't doing the same things when there are tens/hundreds of thousands of $$$ to be made. Especially now that the games have gotten tougher, there is only so much you can squeeze out by playing the game totally on the square.

Also, considering the age of many HS online pros, I doubt the concept of ethical behavior and it's long term benefits are even fully understood. (re: multi-accounting and ghost account scandals).

Poker is basically a hustle. I think people who have been around the game long enough eventually come to understand that. Those poker "heroes" aren't virtuous, that's for sure!

I enjoyed the OP, thanks! I can relate much of it to the far lower stakes and people I play with regularly.

1 more thing:

I found Gabe Thaler's approach to poker very honest and informative (Poker Road interview). He absolutely "gets it" and Limon obv does too!

Peace
DM

limon, I'm sorry but you are just plain wrong about players sharing a bankroll in the same games, deliberately 'propping' to attract fish, or playing hu purely for 'show'. There are lots of people in this thread who are part of the 'community' that plays these games, and they are all telling you it doesn't happen. AFAIK you no longer play online, nor are friends with anyone who regularly plays 10/20 + online. You are purely throwing out a 'wise old sage' guess about what is happening, it's a perfectly reasonable guess but it also happens to be just that, a guess, and happens to be very, very untrue. You are making yourself appear very foolish with your repeated assertions that such activities are prevalent, and snide smartass replies to people who try to correct you. You are wrong, snipes and stinger are correct.

i hate arguing about something that's easily provable so lets just bet. seems you think AND I QUOTE YOU the "regular 10/20+ online" players dont , "share a bankroll in the same games, deliberately 'prop' to attract fish, or play hu purely for 'show' " soooo....ill bet you that, of the top 10% of players in HANDS PLAYED at a limit of 10/20+ nl (full, 6max and HU combined) on line in the last year at least 2 of them have taken % of each other or played off the same bankroll while at the same table. how much do you want to bet? (get snipes and stinger together to help gather money) this should be funny. the way i will prove this is 2 of them WILL come forward to take your money if its worth it. but it should be easy. all of the honest big game pros should be able to get together 500k in a minute...hell, they can just take it from thier combined bankroll...lol.

and you would propose to prove this how?