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Old 12-19-2014, 07:34 AM   #51
Onlythenuzt
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

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Originally Posted by smokybacon View Post
Women are just interested in different things. To 99.99% of women, staring at a computer screen playing a card game just doesn't interest them. They'd rather be out shopping, putting on makeup, going out drinking, watching TV or some other similar activity (and no this isn't sexist, it's just the truth).

Women are also statistically proven much lower risk takers than men, and poker is obviously a risky game full of variance where you're essentially gambling with your own money.
Very true. But allow me to add also 'taking off makeup', cleaning, child rearing and washing dishes.

Women on average like sure things.
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Old 12-19-2014, 01:19 PM   #52
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

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Originally Posted by WateryBoil View Post
slots are pretty mindless though, my mom says she likes them due to the complete lack of thought needed to play.... jeezuss...
That's why the mind is free to wander and start coming up with cause/effect explanations for winning/losing at the machine
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Old 01-02-2015, 05:52 AM   #53
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

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Originally Posted by smokybacon View Post
Women are just interested in different things. To 99.99% of women, staring at a computer screen playing a card game just doesn't interest them. They'd rather be out shopping, putting on makeup, going out drinking, watching TV or some other similar activity (and no this isn't sexist, it's just the truth).

Women are also statistically proven much lower risk takers than men, and poker is obviously a risky game full of variance where you're essentially gambling with your own money.
Lets say there is a person who does not shop, drink, watch tv, gossip or do any other similar activities. Chances are pretty good that this person is a man according to the 99.99% argument. Well I am not. And about 99.99 - that is some amazing accuracy. This argument cant possibly be made up.
And as for poker being a risky game and women being lower risk takers - poker is about calculated risk and that is a very different thing.
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:06 PM   #54
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

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Originally Posted by jmo123 View Post
women don't play because they are almost always just bad at poker, they don't have the skill set to be successful
Could you list the skills men have which make them successful at poker
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Old 01-03-2015, 06:22 PM   #55
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

Women do have the skill set to play poker, just such a small percentage actually care to take the time to become solid. You have to think most women aren't involved in gambling, need for income, or pursue poker as a way of life. Most men want money early on and find ways to exploit our system to get it....therefore comes poker.

I do believe many women would succeed in poker if given the time and not just because they are marketable.
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Old 01-08-2015, 09:37 AM   #56
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

Well, women are more sociable creatures. They're interests are weighted more towards human contact, teaching and nursing being typical examples. Whereas men, being more 'career-driven', dabble more in numbers and facts.

This is very general I'll admit but I imagine the 'correct' answer to this question is pretty straightforward.
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Old 01-20-2015, 09:01 PM   #57
dfazman
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

Since my wife isn't on here (because she's done with poker after playing online) I will comment on her behalf. Long ago we used to play a fun home game with few real poker rules. She misses that. We switched to more "serious" poker and she got into that for a while. I took off playing online while she watched at first, then jumped in to see if it would be fun.

As I've already stated, it was not. Online poker suffers from the same cancer the rest of the Internet suffers from - anonymous losers like trolling women. Her screenname had the word "woman" in it, which apparently means "berate me for not being a man" to most men. I didn't believe it at first but her chat window was an unending stream of "stupid b****!" and the like no matter what she did or how nice she was. It wasn't constant, but I swear it would happen at least once a session. She didn't want to change her screenname or adjust for the online world, so she left. Us poker players got one less player at the tables - which is bad for all of us.

In my experience many men create an atmosphere of exclusion in the poker community (simply as a new player to a venue I often feel like an outsider and I am treated as such). Some men feel women should not play poker at all and have no problem talking about it like their unsupported opinion is a valid argument - poker is a man thing? That's not an argument, that's ridiculous.

If you're a guy reading this and you don't believe my wife's experience is representative, try it. Make yourself a screenname on a poker site (not facebook poker) and identify yourself as a woman. I was appalled at the hate from other poker players and embarrassed for my gender. I do not wonder why more women don't play poker online. I marvel that any do at all.
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Old 01-25-2015, 07:25 AM   #58
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

One of the reasons might be how and where it is advertised. Before meeting my boyfriend at the time I did not know that it is possible to play poker for living online or live.
The only poker movie I had seen was Rounders and unlike many male poker players it did not make me wanna play poker for living.
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Old 01-26-2015, 08:27 AM   #59
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

I think the image of a poker pro is pretty geeky and nerdy.
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:44 AM   #60
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

Yeah. If you are familiar with the best players then some of them might look/sound a bit geeky/nerdy. And I do not think it is bad thing.

But if you do not know anything about the poker world and you happen to google the word ┤poker pro┤ then the images and stories are far from geeky.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:24 AM   #61
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

I think its fair to say that men in general like math more than women, and since poker, especially online poker is math driven, a disproportionate number of men play.

I don't think its sexist to say that many women don't like math. I think this has been acknowledged by both sides of the gender aisle. Task forces are created in efforts to try to stimulate more very young girls to get interested in math and science.

I remember as a very young child, like 3 or 4, that my play would revolve around numbers rather than letters, and even now, I think many men can look at numbers all day long and never get bored. And when they're done, they go play poker.
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Old 01-30-2015, 01:44 PM   #62
dfazman
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

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Originally Posted by Chippa58 View Post
I think its fair to say that men in general like math more than women...
I have to disagree. I don't think it's fair to say that at all. This is an area where women as a group have been discouraged from in the not-too-distant past (and in the present in parts of the American culture). Whenever you have a group discouraged from participation you have to encourage that group as part of the process of trying to fix things. And that's just one step, as we're seeing in the Gamergate online fistfight. Women are getting into coding, and making games, and they like it. And they are being endlessly harassed for it by men. I have had to talk to my daughter about it.

Speaking of her, my 16 year old loves math and is proud of all of her educational accomplishments. I don't think she'll go into a math-related field but that's only because she loves Japanese class more.

I am more than willing to concede that I'm an atypical example, my family is probably a statistical anomaly in some way that would allow you to invalidate my personal experience. That's fine. But to say that it's fair in any way to say women are less interested in math, I don't think we exist in a culture or society where we can objectively determine that.
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Old 01-31-2015, 07:47 AM   #63
DistelFink
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

Let me post you a few links, to start off your education on gender constructs.

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages...nder-and-math/

http://www.apa.org/research/action/share.aspx

http://www.science20.com/news_articl...es_math-106756

By posting you these links, I want to encourage you to do your own research on the matter. Do not hesitate to read the quoted studies yourself.
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Old 02-01-2015, 07:42 AM   #64
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

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Originally Posted by Chippa58 View Post
I think its fair to say that men in general like math more than women, and since poker, especially online poker is math driven, a disproportionate number of men play.
I could not find any studies on whether men like math more than women. But I was not looking very hard.

The links you posted DistelFink focused on whether there is a gap in math skills between men and women.

I think those two things are different. Having good results in a certain subject does not mean you like the subject. And I think Chippa58 was referring to the not liking part not that women are bad at math.
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Old 02-01-2015, 08:21 AM   #65
DistelFink
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

If you actually look a bit deeper into that articles and into the underlying studies, you would have learned that 'liking' a subject more or less based on gender stereotypes is most likely a socialy constructed gender stereotype. This means, that heteronormative genderapproved behavior (e.g. boys like cars, girls like dolls) is enforced from a young age in a variety of educational ways. This might be via portraied gender stereotypes in media, behavioral shaping by parents ("don┤t play with dolls, this is for girls, no, samantha, black is not a cute color for girls to wear", etc.), or just by copying behavior the kids experience and observe around them.

I am saying that 'liking or disliking' a subject like math or science is most likely behavior people feel they should or should not like according to the believesystem they were educated in.

If you get it reinforced in your childhood that you should be more interested in glitter and make up than in fisher price and computers, you will eventually learn your lessen, especially when you are a normal human being (and most of us are) that shows no or next to no deviant behavior.

Before you state that a gender likes or dislikes specific topics, I would encourage you to have a broader look to the factors that lead to accepted behavior.

This picture just slightly touches the subject, but it might give you a little bit of an insight about how far constructed gender stereotypes effect us all. Would you encourage your son to play with dolls? Or your daughter to get a crush on the dumpster driver and have that as her job wish, age 6?


Last edited by DistelFink; 02-01-2015 at 08:23 AM. Reason: spelling errors, some grammar, non-native speaker
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Old 02-01-2015, 09:08 AM   #66
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

First of all. Chillax. DistelFink. It is a discussion. Be nice.

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Originally Posted by DistelFink View Post
If you actually look a bit deeper into that articles and into the underlying studies, you would have learned that 'liking' a subject more or less based on gender stereotyt heteronormative genderapproved behavior (e.g. boys like cars, girls like dolls) is enforced from a young age in a variety of educapes is most likely a socialy constructed gender stereotype.
That was not the issue. The issue was does the subject liking difference exist in the first place. Not what causes it.

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Originally Posted by DistelFink View Post
Before you state that a gender likes or dislikes specific topics, I would encourage you to have a broader look to the factors that lead to accepted behavior.
I have not stated that. I was simply explaining what Chippa58 meant in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DistelFink View Post
This picture just slightly touches the subject, but it might give you a little bit of an insight about how far constructed gender stereotypes effect us all. Would you encourage your son to play with dolls?
I do not need to encourage him. I let him choose. And he happens to like dolls as much as cars. His favorite color is pink. And he wants to be a mom when he grows up. He is 17 years old. Just kidding he is 3
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Old 02-01-2015, 09:48 AM   #67
DistelFink
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

Oh, I am relaxed.
If it helps your understanding, I can add some more smileys next time, so you do not get confused. Helps?

Must be cause I am german (I can pull stereotypes too, haha), so I put arguments quite direct. Some people are known to take offense. But none is meant.

I am glad you have a great kid and let him develop.

IMHO one cannot argue that one assumption (some gender like thing a more than other gender) is "fair" to be said true, without actually looking on the connecting circumstances. Why do people like stuff? How do they develop their likes, etc.

For the actual topic at hand "Why dont more women play online poker" it migt be usefull to have a broader look at constructed gender identities and also the gender gap.

It┤s defintely not going to be an easy answer.
In my personal opinion I had to face lots of verbal abuse at the tables, whenever I identified as a woman. Hence online, I will not reveal my gender identity.
I can certainly see why this discourages other women from playing.
The pictures used of women in poker are also very typicly showing beautiful women who fall into some sort of stereotype, usually young, sexy, slim, etc. Many female pros are shown in advertising as the sexy vixen, not the cool analytical player.
Men have usually more free time at their hand, due to gender gap in payments, they simply can afford to play more in their free time.
Also in many sterotypical relationships the unpaied carework (education of kids, raising and care for children, elderly parents, household, etc) are usually in the hands of the women, which leaves them even less time to play.
This is just a few roughly put together assumptions, not at all specific reasons I believe are 100% true. But I believe that answering the original questions it needs a deeper look into society.
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Old 02-06-2015, 08:15 AM   #68
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

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Originally Posted by DistelFink View Post
Men have usually more free time at their hand, due to gender gap in payments, they simply can afford to play more in their free time.
Also in many sterotypical relationships the unpaied carework (education of kids, raising and care for children, elderly parents, household, etc) are usually in the hands of the women, which leaves them even less time to play.
.
This is bang on the money in my experience
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Old 02-12-2015, 03:34 PM   #69
maslalo
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

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This is bang on the money in my experience
let me 2nd that
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Old 02-18-2015, 05:53 AM   #70
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

I agree with women having less free time than men in general. And basically no free time when you have kid(s). But I also think that we - women - can do a lot to change that.
A good start is to talk to your other half about it. He might not even realize how hard it is for you. Asking what you want gets you a long way.
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Old 02-19-2015, 08:47 PM   #71
DistelFink
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

Generally good advise, allthough it focuses the responisbility of the currnt situation on the individual, which I think is a bit far fetched.

I personally am in a position in which I am working a fantastic self emplied job that not only fulfills me, it also funds me well and leaves me enough time to do whatever I want.

On the same time I also recognize that I am in a very privileged position compared to other women.

Just "talk to your sginificant other" is not going to cut the slack here just quite.
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Old 02-20-2015, 05:47 AM   #72
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

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Originally Posted by DistelFink View Post
Generally good advise, allthough it focuses the responisbility of the currnt situation on the individual, which I think is a bit far fetched...

...Just "talk to your sginificant other" is not going to cut the slack here just quite.
Could you explain the first sentence further. I am not sure I understand it. So I am not gonna comment that. Yet

What I meant and wrote was that it would be a good start. I do not think it is an universal cure for the problem. I think we (women and men) talk so much about our problems to everyone who is willing to listen that we forget to talk to the one we are having the problem with.

DistelFink are you a parent?
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Old 02-21-2015, 09:57 PM   #73
DistelFink
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

I do not think that there is a general (or even easy) cure for the whole situation.
It would be interesting to analyze where the actual source of the problem is routed. Why does it seem necessary that there always has to be some sort of surpression? Why do gender roles affect the expectation of individuals at all?

If one talks in general about privilege of certain groups and points out discrepancies, it is usually a very easy answer to say "If only the underprivileged person would stand up for themselves" (in this example: If the individuals would talk, or the women would talk to their partners to ease the house work) that shifts the responsibility in one corner "If you would do X situation Y wouldn┤t be so bad", instead of adressing the root "in western society it seems there is a white male privilege at work that creates a lot of problems" (please note that I phrase sentences in a plakative way to be better understood). While the second option takes the responsibility away from the individual and highlights the whole set up of society, it also might lead to a connected problem that is interwtined.

By shifting responisbility to the individual you completely blank out bigger structures.
I personally think that goes in the same direction as victim blaming and makes it impossible to solve the situation.

Please do explain: how does my parental situation anything to do with this discussion, let alone my gender identity?
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Old 02-23-2015, 12:46 PM   #74
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

I have not stated that women are responsible for the situation. And I do not think that either. I also do not think that talking will solve a multi - faceted problem.

If you would be in a situation where you work full time and do all the housework and your husband also works full time and does zero housework. What would you do if you wanted him to take part in household works?

You gave me an interesting question to my question: "are you a parent". If I have time I will answer it gladly.
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Old 02-25-2015, 02:30 AM   #75
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Re: why don't more women play ONLINE poker?

Women, in contrast to 20-25 year old men, don't like to take risks. From their point of view just looking attractive enough to get married is simply a dominant strategy.

Let's not forget that after getting raked by Douglas and other companies for lipstick and other overpriced crap, they usually don't have a lot of cash left to spend on other things.
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