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Old 11-12-2012, 10:00 PM   #76
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Anybody being raped is horrible, and yes, there are men who have been raped.

But the vast majority of rape victims are women, not men, and when most people think of a rape victim, they picture a female, not a male. In addition, women are generally socialized to be cognizant of the fact that they are potential victims in ways that men are not. Sickeningly, most people aren't going to be overly shocked to hear any particular woman has been the victim of a sexual assault the way they would be shocked to hear the same of a male.

So without at all denigrating male rape or sexual assault victims, there's still an inherent violence specifically towards women that comes into play when people talk about "raping" someone, whether that's at the poker table or anywhere else. Most men aren't going to think "that's not funny, I could be raped someday". Whereas most women are cognizant of their status as potential victims and may feel more threatened by such "harmless" table banter.

There's no reason that words that normally convey horrendous, violent, violating acts need to be turned into slang for dominating a poker table or an opponent. Whoever said "words can never hurt me" was a moron. Words have power. We should be more careful in how we use them.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:44 AM   #77
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

There was a female player who made a questionable call on the turn and sucked out and the guy who lost just reamed her out and basically called her every name in the book. She looked like she was about to cry....as she was stacking up the guy who lost the pot said, "Sit back down here b*tch I want to make my money back" I looked at the guy and told him you probably shouldn't be here and the entire table just looks at me like I shouldn't be voicing my opinion or defend her. By the way I'm a male and I've unfortunately seen it far too many times women abused at the table where it comes to a point that it becomes not even fun for them to play and awkward for me and the other sane people. The floor should do something but a lot of the times they are scared they'll cause more drama.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:07 AM   #78
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

I can't believe anyone would actually say something like that. Shows you there are *******s everywhere.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:16 PM   #79
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Anytime I see any player insult any other player I call them out

Lately players seem to think its ok to talk about "shoving it in her box" in reference to tipping

I have zero tolerance for that and I call them out whenever it starts. I am not polite about it

What should I do when the dealer laughs along with them though and it appears to be a real laugh?

It still makes me feel uncomfortable, and its still wrong and maybe the dealer feels uncomfortable aswell
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:11 PM   #80
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

best way to deal with this kind of **** is to stack em 5x in a row

although some comments by these "men" are totally out of line.... i'd try to ignore them and focus on the game.. i'm not sure how i would react to this as i probably would never be in this situations (i'm not a female).

anyway gl in the future and don't let them get to you
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:14 PM   #81
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhcg86 View Post
Anytime I see any player insult any other player I call them out

Lately players seem to think its ok to talk about "shoving it in her box" in reference to tipping

I have zero tolerance for that and I call them out whenever it starts. I am not polite about it

What should I do when the dealer laughs along with them though and it appears to be a real laugh?

It still makes me feel uncomfortable, and its still wrong and maybe the dealer feels uncomfortable aswell
you could switch tables
ignore everything being done
tell his boss about it
NEVER tip him again

by the way, good job on calling out those real table bullies (not pokerwise)
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:01 AM   #82
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

In my situation the dealer is a girl and is the person who is being joked with

Sex jokes about women are innapropiate if said women are in earshot

The things said about cocktail waitresses are also obscene
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:51 PM   #83
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Agree with most of this but sadly I think your 1/10 stat is way off if it includes all sexual assault. I too hate it when people use "rape" as a poker term to describe crushing someone in position even though it's such a common way of describing a table dynamic, i.e- "I was raping him all day",

To me, it's not the same as "crush", "destroy" or even "murder" etc. because it is graphic, gendered (to a large extent tho ofc men can be raped) and is much more specific than general descriptions of destruction.

Imagine if a woman said she was "castrating" the guy to their direct right at the table? It's grotesquely graphic. Sadly many women do have a specific image to conjure when they hear the word "rape."

I, for one, am in favor of women saying they are castrating the men at the table.
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:00 AM   #84
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Originally Posted by NutsInYoEye View Post
What a bunch of hypersensitive nits. You're taking the guy's comments out of context and trying to make yourself out to be a victim.

What if he had instead said "If the 7 of diamond comes, I totally rob you."? or "If the seven of diamonds comes, I totally crush you."? The intent is all the same regardless of what specific word you use.

You're trying to make the comment into something it is not. It is clear the guy's intention is not to force you into a non-consensual sexual act. It is not a threat. He is merely saying that if a certain card would have come that he would have had your money.

Trying to misconstrue that statement into something it is not is retarded.

Like many words, "rape" has several definitions.

rape. verb: to seize, take, or carry off by force.

Origin:
1250–1300; (v.) Middle English rapen < Anglo-French raper < Latin rapere to seize, carry off by force, plunder; (noun) Middle English < Anglo-French ra ( a ) p ( e ), derivative of raper
NAILED IT
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:22 PM   #85
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Not really.

Someone saying "I totally crush/own you" is completely different from "I totally rape you" in both tone and implied threat and anyone pretending otherwise because of an old timey definition of a word is deluding themselves.

No one uses rape to mean anything other than a violent sexual assault anymore, whatever the original meaning of the word might have been. Claiming, even in a joking fashion, that anything that happens at the poker table is in anyway similar is offensive to many.

And, as I pointed out before, you have no way of knowing if anyone at the table, male or female, is a sexual assault survivor. Are you familiar with the term "flashback"? Why in the world would you want to risk reminding anyone of what is probably one of the most horrible experiences in their life just so you can make a one off comment when there are many other words that convey the same thing but without those violent sexual overtones?
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:47 PM   #86
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Rape is pretty freely used within the gaming community as a synonym for getting crushed/crushing. I've personally said "Yeah I got totally raped" many many times if someone 'owned' me'.

Outside of this community, understandably considering demographics, it's not as widely used, so assuming this was a younger male I really don't think the guy meant anything by it and honestly it's not in the least bit a sexist comment, even if inappropriate.

The first one is absurd, didn't know people like that existed in real life and surprised they didn't get a warning from the floor - there has to be some kind of rules of conduct no? Idk I dont play live poker much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ship It Or Bust View Post
Last weekend I was sitting next to a young guy at the table. He was busily texting back-and-forth with a (professional) girl he'd met earlier in the evening.

At one point while he was in a big hand with several players, he said out loud "Hey guys, let me win this pot. I need money to pay for some p***y later!" While he was in no way trying to offend me, I turned to look at him and say "Hey, there's a girl here!"

Instantly he was apologetic and shame-faced. He kept saying "Sorry, sorry, ohmygosh I'm so sorry!" Basically he had forgotten that a woman was right there next to him at the table. I wasn't bothered by his comment, but at the same time I wanted him to be aware of who he MAY have been offending. I can't say I've seen anything outrageous like what the OP described. But if I did, I'd try to handle it gracefully. If that didn't work, then I'd be sure to say something scathing to the guy in question and put him in his place. I don't care how big of a fish you are, rape is nothing to joke about. If you have no problems joking about rape, then I have no problems getting you thrown out of the room.
Guy sounds like a gigantic retard, but I'd have more respect for him if he did say that knowing you were present, because at least then he's a somewhat honest retard.

Also, the way the guy used the word 'rape', he clearly wasn't making a joke out of it... I think intent matters a lot and even if you can quite easily argue that he shouldn't use it in this setting, it still doesnt mean he was 'joking about rape'.

Quote:
No one uses rape to mean anything other than a violent sexual assault anymore, whatever the original meaning of the word might have been. Claiming, even in a joking fashion, that anything that happens at the poker table is in anyway similar is offensive to many.
Right and wrong at the same time I guess... Obviously the original 'pillage, sack, plunder' meaning is long gone, but as I said, the way its used within the gaming community it has somewhat lost its sexual connotation (within this specific context) to this group of people. Same with "gay bet" in poker (or in gaming for that matter); if you hear that word are you seriously thinking even for a second of homosexuality? Because within this context the first thing that comes to mind is someone betting 1/8 pot on the river or getting c/minraised on a paired board.

Doesn't mean it should be carried out into public life, people should ideally be capable of judging where something may or may not be appropriate, but it does change intent, which matters.

I really don't want to come off as belittling the power of this word, especially to someone who has had to endure its meaning, and I've actually re-written this post several times just because it's just something that I can't really fully... I don't know what word to use here - imagine? Understand? I'm reasonably certain I'd try to kill whoever did it, but I have a hard time imagining the actual feelings involved, so I feel vaguely... clumsy/un-entitled to discuss this.

Last edited by TianYuan; 02-14-2013 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:53 PM   #87
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

The problem with saying "it's fine within the gaming community so it doesn't carry that connotation so it shouldn't bother anyone" is that the gaming community is, you know, part of the general community at large. Even if it is acceptable in the online poker community, or within young men of the gaming world, pretending that that makes it okay in a general casino where there are all sorts of people is an error in judgement.

I honestly don't care what a two people or a group of people choose to say to each other within their own group of friends. But this when you're out in public, not everyone is part of that insular community. And in the world at large, "rape" means a violent sexual assault. Just because you know people who don't use it that way doesn't change the fact that for the vast majority of people, it means something else, so when you're out in the general public, it's public sensibilities that dictate whether or not something is appropriate.

So go ahead and joke about raping each other when the right river card hits the river when you're playing a home game with your buddies. Just be aware when you make the same comment in a casino, there are people who are going to think you are completely out of line.

In this instance, it's very similar to what you'd say to a close friend joking around and what you'd say to some stranger on the street. Friends can make comments to me that would be deeply offensive if said by a stranger. Context counts. And poker rooms in a casino are not JUST young internet players who all agree that calling getting dominated in a hand "raped" is fine.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:28 AM   #88
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Even if you think such terminology is acceptable in the "gaming community," if you are at a low stakes (5/5 or less) live table and you think everyone is from the "gaming community" you're doing it wrong. You should have non-professionals at your game. Which means you shouldn't say it. I'm pretty confident if you knew someone at the table was actually raped, you wouldn't say it to them. Best to assume since you didn't know that to not say it.

And yeah, lots of people aren't public with being raped, so just assuming a poker acquaintance hasn't been raped because you didn't know about it is a mistake.
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:08 AM   #89
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

That was my entire point, that it isnt OK outside of this sub-group, but that it's an understandable slip-up to make, especially as some people from this 'sub-group' are not always the most socially... competent.
To quote myself:
Quote:
Doesn't mean it should be carried out into public life, people should ideally be capable of judging where something may or may not be appropriate, but it does change intent, which matters.
And it's not a 'rape joke'...

Obviously I would not use this term outside of a friendly setting, because I am cognisant of the difference in setting.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:59 AM   #90
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

But then you also have to consider, what if people who aren't okay with it want to join that group?

I'm not particularly offended when someone says it, but I'd like it if it wasn't said. However, I basically "accept" it because I like 2p2 and it's sort of the price of admission to be here and get along. Does it have to be that way? IDK. Probably, since the majority is usually loathe to cater to the desires of the minority, particularly in an online environment when they can just call it uptight/butthurt/emo/sandy vag/whatever other term they use to describe being over sensitive.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:12 PM   #91
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

I think (maybe that should be 'hope', and is probably biased from growing up in a super liberal country, in a middle-class family), when it comes to the word 'gay', it will be such an accepted thing one day (and I feel when it comes to my/slightly younger generation, it pretty much already is) that the usage of the word just doesn't matter.

Generally I've considered the word 'rape' to be in the same category of having changed its meaning within this subgroup, but from this thread I can definitely see a strong argument for why it's different... (unless we reach some kind of utopia where nobody ever gets raped, which is sadly a lot less likely than homosexuality becoming universally accepted)

I like the carefree environment of being able to say pretty much whatever without people caring though --- I guess that's also a product of growing up very nice and cozy without really seeing anything bad ever happen hehe
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:15 AM   #92
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

The terminology is not acceptable in the gaming community and many of us find it the most embarrassing and disgusting thing that members of the community do. Please stop it immediately - your right to a "carefree environment of being able to say pretty much whatever" should not magically supersede other people's right to not be made to feel uncomfortable/unwelcome.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:42 AM   #93
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

The turn around let me see your ass comment is out of line but the flush/raping that's just common poker terminology. I think you may be seeking a little attention crying sexist.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:57 AM   #94
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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but the flush/raping that's just common poker terminology.
It really, really isn't.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:51 PM   #95
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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It really, really isn't.
this. so much this.

anyone who thinks a woman is just "crying for attention" when she points out obvious sexism is part of the problem.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:38 PM   #96
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Yes, women taking offense to violent sexual assault terminology is just attention crying sexist.

What planet do you live on, and how did you get to Earth?
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:59 AM   #97
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Yes, women taking offense to violent sexual assault terminology is just attention crying sexist.

What planet do you live on, and how did you get to Earth?
Sadly Planet Gamer has pretty sicknasty internet to facilitate all those 360 NOSCOPE HEADSHOTZZZZZ which means its denizens (hereby referred to as "asshats") are free to be misogynist *******s from thousands of light years away.

Their internet is so good it literally allows them to break the laws of physics in order to lol about rape.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:53 PM   #98
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Think i have to agree with the rape comment being a Lil out of line.So many other terminologies exist like,"crushed,smoked,dominated,dead to rights etc"

The whole rape term is part of the young immature jerk off culture of today's youth.The same people that use the word "gay" as an insult as well.
I understand its hard to not be offended or get upset every time one of these jerk offs uses the term,But,Poker brings all walks of life to the table and its not feasible to expect 9 other mature,just overall good people in general to be seated with you at the poker table.
As soon as i get to a table i can tell within the first 5 mins if i'm going to be socializing with some nice,genuinely good people or if the I-pod ear buds or going in.
Long Story short,Although i agree with you that these and some other terms aren't really PC,There's nothing i can see that will fix this problem ever when engaging in such a widespread type of activity.

oh yea,I'm a dude BTW
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:27 PM   #99
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

I don't agree with your view at all. Just because we can't expect 9 other people to all be civilised doesn't mean we should put up with it when they aren't.

I also disagree entirely that the problem can't be fixed. The plan of attack is two fold - criticise those who use the terms in that manner and convince people like yourself that it's not a pointless endeavour (I'm not sure why you'd say that it is when plenty of evidence that a difference can be made exists - see the gay movement for proof which, though not "won" is miles better than it was 30 years ago).

Seriously, rather than sticking your earphones in hoping the problem goes away confront the guy. You'll both be doing your part to improve the atmosphere of the cardroom and you'll probably tilt the dbag
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:38 PM   #100
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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I don't agree with your view at all. Just because we can't expect 9 other people to all be civilised doesn't mean we should put up with it when they aren't.

I also disagree entirely that the problem can't be fixed. The plan of attack is two fold - criticise those who use the terms in that manner and convince people like yourself that it's not a pointless endeavour (I'm not sure why you'd say that it is when plenty of evidence that a difference can be made exists - see the gay movement for proof which, though not "won" is miles better than it was 30 years ago).

Seriously, rather than sticking your earphones in hoping the problem goes away confront the guy. You'll both be doing your part to improve the atmosphere of the cardroom and you'll probably tilt the dbag
I may have misconstrued my words a bit here.For one thing,I am def the guy that calls out the jerks at a table.To the point where I've been asked to leave a few times at several diff places.I play late night and that's when all the real jerks come out.I prob get diff crowds during my hours of play than most who play during the day or early evening,(casino wise)
All i'm trying to say is that,Its a hard battle to fight.You exchange words with one jerk and otherone spawns the next time.Jerks are jerks and need to be taken with a grain of salt sometimes.
Just understanding that most of these younger guys are just really socially inept around others.
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