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Old 04-20-2012, 05:57 PM   #51
redhat_jane
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

wow. and i thought I'VE heard some things in my day...

if some jerk at a table made a joke about raping me, i would look him dead in the eye and say, "sir, 1 in 10 women is sexually assaulted in her lifetime and i am sure everyone at this table knows someone who has been raped. it isn't funny to joke about that sh*t and you need to watch your mouth when you speak to me."

hopefully the floor staff is competent enough (ie: the great folks at Venetian) to boot the guy but otherwise i'd ask for a table change and my parting words to the guy would be "hopefully none of the women in your life ever have to live through such a horrifying experience."

i've posted extensively on TWSS about my experience with inappropriate behavior from men at tables before, but i've NEVER heard anyone make a comment about rape, and it's probably a good thing because i would never take that crap for a single second. ugh. so sorry you had to deal with this. sometimes these types of trolls need to be reminded that we aren't in a bar or playing a home game in their mom's basement.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:08 PM   #52
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

What a bunch of hypersensitive nits. You're taking the guy's comments out of context and trying to make yourself out to be a victim.

What if he had instead said "If the 7 of diamond comes, I totally rob you."? or "If the seven of diamonds comes, I totally crush you."? The intent is all the same regardless of what specific word you use.

You're trying to make the comment into something it is not. It is clear the guy's intention is not to force you into a non-consensual sexual act. It is not a threat. He is merely saying that if a certain card would have come that he would have had your money.

Trying to misconstrue that statement into something it is not is retarded.

Like many words, "rape" has several definitions.

rape. verb: to seize, take, or carry off by force.

Origin:
1250–1300; (v.) Middle English rapen < Anglo-French raper < Latin rapere to seize, carry off by force, plunder; (noun) Middle English < Anglo-French ra ( a ) p ( e ), derivative of raper

Last edited by NutsInYoEye; 04-22-2012 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:26 PM   #53
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NutsInYoEye View Post
What a bunch of hypersensitive nits. You're taking the guy's comments out of context and trying to make yourself out to be a victim.

What if he had instead said "If the 7 of diamond comes, I totally rob you."? or "If the seven of diamonds comes, I totally crush you."? The intent is all the same regardless of what specific word you use.

You're trying to make the comment into something it is not. It is clear the guy's intention is not to force you into a non-consensual sexual act. It is not a threat. He is merely saying that if a certain card would have come that he would have had your money.

Trying to misconstrue that statement into something it is not is retarded.

Like many words, "rape" has several definitions.

rape. verb: to seize, take, or carry off by force.

Origin:
1250–1300; (v.) Middle English rapen < Anglo-French raper < Latin rapere to seize, carry off by force, plunder; (noun) Middle English < Anglo-French ra ( a ) p ( e ), derivative of raper

i'm sorry, have you ever been raped?

no?

okay, then stfu.

that word is unacceptable to say to a woman, joke or not.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:37 PM   #54
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Where is the joke? The guy was using the word appropriately. The fact that you take offense to an alternative definition of the word is your problem.

By context it is clear that he was not using the definition you're referring to. Quit looking for a fight.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:41 PM   #55
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Originally Posted by NutsInYoEye View Post
Where is the joke? The guy was using the word appropriately. The fact that you take offense to an alternative definition of the word is your problem.

By context it is clear that he was not using the definition you're referring to. Quit looking for a fight.
saying that you're going to "rape" a woman at the table means exactly what he meant it to mean, not that he's going to "rape and pillage" her town. it's a loaded, violent thing to say to a woman, ESPECIALLY if she happens to be a victim of rape. (1 in 10 of us are, btw.)

it is highly inappropriate and if you're really defending this sort of language honestly it says more about you and your attitude toward women than anything else.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:44 PM   #56
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Originally Posted by redhat_jane View Post
wow. and i thought I'VE heard some things in my day...

if some jerk at a table made a joke about raping me, i would look him dead in the eye and say, "sir, 1 in 10 women is sexually assaulted in her lifetime and i am sure everyone at this table knows someone who has been raped. it isn't funny to joke about that sh*t and you need to watch your mouth when you speak to me."
Agree with most of this but sadly I think your 1/10 stat is way off if it includes all sexual assault. I too hate it when people use "rape" as a poker term to describe crushing someone in position even though it's such a common way of describing a table dynamic, i.e- "I was raping him all day",

To me, it's not the same as "crush", "destroy" or even "murder" etc. because it is graphic, gendered (to a large extent tho ofc men can be raped) and is much more specific than general descriptions of destruction.

Imagine if a woman said she was "castrating" the guy to their direct right at the table? It's grotesquely graphic. Sadly many women do have a specific image to conjure when they hear the word "rape."
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:56 PM   #57
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Originally Posted by NutsInYoEye View Post
Where is the joke? The guy was using the word appropriately. The fact that you take offense to an alternative definition of the word is your problem.

By context it is clear that he was not using the definition you're referring to. Quit looking for a fight.

You are posting in a forum for women, where most of the posters are women.
If you don't understand the connotation of the word 'rape' and what it means for most women, and why the women here might take offense to it then you need to find another forum to post in.

You also cannot tell a female poster in this forum who does take offense to the usage of the word to 'stop looking for a fight' -- maybe in NVG, but not here.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:58 PM   #58
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

I respectfully disagree. The same comment could have just as easily be said to another man. The meaning doesn't change just because it happens to be said to a woman. You're taking the comment out of context.

Sexual assault is in no way defensible. That is not what I am saying.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:01 PM   #59
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Originally Posted by NutsInYoEye View Post
I respectfully disagree. The same comment could have just as easily be said to another man. The meaning doesn't change just because it happens to be said to a woman. You're taking the comment out of context.

Sexual assault is in no way defensible. That is not what I am saying.
And this is where you are fundamentally wrong.
If you don't see this, I don't know what to tell you, other than to be careful with your future posts in TWSS.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:02 PM   #60
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Originally Posted by NutsInYoEye View Post
The meaning doesn't change just because it happens to be said to a woman.
yes. it does.

period.

end of fight.

you aren't a woman, you've never been raped, and you've never had that word said to you at a poker table. you know not of what you speak. accept it and try and learn something from this.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:03 PM   #61
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Originally Posted by chairmanmyow View Post
Last couple live sessions this has happened:

I was starting my session, got my chips and walked up to the table. The guy next to me says, "Turn around so we can see your ass." Then a couple others join in, "Yeah, turn around."
I froze but the guy who had directed me to the table fortunately said, "Table change?" and I said yes and I never sat.
I have been playing live for years, never had that happen.

So floor apologized when I cashed out that night, I said thanks.

Last night after playing for several hours (same casino), I'm a in multi-way pot and I wind up with a straight flush. Not a huge pot, but I make some money off two other flushes.

One of the guys involved says, "If the seven of diamonds comes, I totally rape you."

I could have let it go. Probably should have, but instead I said calmly, "Isn't there a better way to express that sentiment?"

He was pretty annoyed, ended up really going off on me. "Obviously stupid and uptight," were some of the things said. I argued a little and then just realized this guy was really angry and not someone I want to talk to, ever.

I'm not trying to be a victim and obviously I'm not trying to win a gender war at the poker table. But at the same time the "pussy", "fold like a little girl", and "rape you," wears on me. A poker room is not a strip club or a locker room. And as someone who has worked in the business world, these guys would get in serious trouble for saying stuff like this.

Where is the line (if any), in your opinion, for sexist behavior in the poker room?


Lol at the Rape you comment
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:35 PM   #62
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Originally Posted by redhat_jane View Post
yes. it does.

period.

end of fight.

you aren't a woman, you've never been raped, and you've never had that word said to you at a poker table. you know not of what you speak. accept it and try and learn something from this.

It's obvious you're set in your role of playing the victim. Your personal experiences prevent you from having a rational conversation.

Everything is not about you. What you went through may have been horrible. It's not fair for you to place that burden on every man you encounter though.

Almost everyone is a victim of something. It's unrealistic to expect everyone to tiptoe around every issue just because someone may be sensitive to x,y, or z.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:38 PM   #63
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Originally Posted by katie75013 View Post
And this is where you are fundamentally wrong.
If you don't see this, I don't know what to tell you, other than to be careful with your future posts in TWSS.

There are countless men and boys that have been the victim of sexual assault.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:45 PM   #64
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NutsInYoEye View Post
It's obvious you're set in your role of playing the victim. Your personal experiences prevent you from having a rational conversation.

Everything is not about you. What you went through may have been horrible. It's not fair for you to place that burden on every man you encounter though.

Almost everyone is a victim of something. It's unrealistic to expect everyone to tiptoe around every issue just because someone may be sensitive to x,y, or z.
can we seriously ban this guy from posting here?

it's clear that he is not a friend of women and doesn't understand the significance of loaded language.

and for the record, not that it should matter AT ALL, but whether or not i have been raped in my lifetime is completely irrelevant and does not change the fact that the word is a loaded term that ALL women take offense to. the fact is that you NEVER KNOW who you are speaking to at a table and you have NO IDEA if they've ever lived through it. guarantee if you asked every single woman in your life if they've ever been raped/sexually assaulted or if they've known someone who has been, close to 100% of them will tell you a sad story.

saying that i'm incapable of having a rational conversation about this issue is dismissive and incorrect. i am capable of rationally telling you that you are wrong in your defense of this word and its usage toward women at a poker table (or any public space.)
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Old 04-22-2012, 11:06 PM   #65
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Originally Posted by NutsInYoEye View Post
It's obvious you're set in your role of playing the victim. Your personal experiences prevent you from having a rational conversation.

Everything is not about you. What you went through may have been horrible. It's not fair for you to place that burden on every man you encounter though.

Almost everyone is a victim of something. It's unrealistic to expect everyone to tiptoe around every issue just because someone may be sensitive to x,y, or z.
Part of having the privilege to post in TWSS, is understanding the way the women view things, respecting their viewpoints and having a respectful and constructive conversation. It is not to tell them that their view has no basis, or that they are incapable of rationally conversing about a pretty obviously, blatant, gender-specific, hot topic. Again, if this was NVG then it would be different, but it's not. If this were a poker-related discussion about strat or hh it would also be different. But this is a women's forum, discussing a globally-understood loaded word that has strong meaning and invokes strong emotion in women, unlike other terms of similar meaning like crushing or destroying or pillaging.

It does not seem that you are able to sympathize with or understand the views of the women in TWSS, and so without personal judgement I am politely and respectfully asking you not to post here.
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:26 AM   #66
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Last weekend I was sitting next to a young guy at the table. He was busily texting back-and-forth with a (professional) girl he'd met earlier in the evening.

At one point while he was in a big hand with several players, he said out loud "Hey guys, let me win this pot. I need money to pay for some p***y later!" While he was in no way trying to offend me, I turned to look at him and say "Hey, there's a girl here!"

Instantly he was apologetic and shame-faced. He kept saying "Sorry, sorry, ohmygosh I'm so sorry!" Basically he had forgotten that a woman was right there next to him at the table. I wasn't bothered by his comment, but at the same time I wanted him to be aware of who he MAY have been offending. I can't say I've seen anything outrageous like what the OP described. But if I did, I'd try to handle it gracefully. If that didn't work, then I'd be sure to say something scathing to the guy in question and put him in his place. I don't care how big of a fish you are, rape is nothing to joke about. If you have no problems joking about rape, then I have no problems getting you thrown out of the room.
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:42 AM   #67
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NutsInYoEye View Post
It's obvious you're set in your role of playing the victim. Your personal experiences prevent you from having a rational conversation.

Everything is not about you. What you went through may have been horrible. It's not fair for you to place that burden on every man you encounter though.

Almost everyone is a victim of something. It's unrealistic to expect everyone to tiptoe around every issue just because someone may be sensitive to x,y, or z.
I will start by saying that I've never been raped, molested, sexually attacked, etc. But I am a woman. And if I man says in any way, shape, or form, that he is going to "rape" me, that word will instantly conjure up horrifying possibilities in my mind and a sickening feeling in my stomach. And I will respond to my gut feelings of the word and the fact that it was spoken to me. It will not be pretty.

You, sir, do not understand your audience. And neither did the guy who used the word "rape" inappropriately at the table. You may be able to say that word (and the "C" word as well) freely with your frat-boy friends. But there is no gray area for usage of that word towards a woman in any context.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:03 PM   #68
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

You know, speaking as a woman who has actually been raped...yeah, don't say that to me, even in jest.

Does the word "flashback" mean anything to you?

Even if I know a person isn't serious, that doesn't mean I might remember in that moment, even briefly, a horrible event in my life. And really, why would you want to do that to someone, even in jest?

Also, I'm pretty sure that the percentage of women who have been sexually assaulted in their lifetime (in the US) is higher than 1/10.
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:21 AM   #69
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

This thread being discussed elsewhere: http://www.womanpokerplayer.com/poke...ycool-imo.html
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:08 AM   #70
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Wow. I'm a guy, and I'm far from a feminist but the least we as men could do is speak up and call out the guy who insults a woman like that. The more guys find it unacceptable and speak up the less stuff like this will happen. So I think the other men at the table, especially those who laughed or joined the jerk's insults - are also guilty of what happened. Call the jerk out, call the floor, whatever. It's completely unacceptable! I'm shocked this happens.
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:01 PM   #71
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chairmanmyow View Post
Last couple live sessions this has happened:

I was starting my session, got my chips and walked up to the table. The guy next to me says, "Turn around so we can see your ass." Then a couple others join in, "Yeah, turn around."
I froze but the guy who had directed me to the table fortunately said, "Table change?" and I said yes and I never sat.
I have been playing live for years, never had that happen.

So floor apologized when I cashed out that night, I said thanks.

Last night after playing for several hours (same casino), I'm a in multi-way pot and I wind up with a straight flush. Not a huge pot, but I make some money off two other flushes.

One of the guys involved says, "If the seven of diamonds comes, I totally rape you."

I could have let it go. Probably should have, but instead I said calmly, "Isn't there a better way to express that sentiment?"

He was pretty annoyed, ended up really going off on me. "Obviously stupid and uptight," were some of the things said. I argued a little and then just realized this guy was really angry and not someone I want to talk to, ever.

I'm not trying to be a victim and obviously I'm not trying to win a gender war at the poker table. But at the same time the "pussy", "fold like a little girl", and "rape you," wears on me. A poker room is not a strip club or a locker room. And as someone who has worked in the business world, these guys would get in serious trouble for saying stuff like this.

Where is the line (if any), in your opinion, for sexist behavior in the poker room?
If I wouldn't say to my wife/Mother/daughter, it doesn't cross my lips at the table. Simple
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:32 PM   #72
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

I'm an equal opportunity arsehole. I'm rude to everyone.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:52 PM   #73
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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I'm an equal opportunity arsehole. I'm rude to everyone.
At least you are being fair
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:59 PM   #74
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Comes with the territory imo nobody likes to lose & lose money along with losing lol
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:55 PM   #75
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Originally Posted by katie75013 View Post
And this is where you are fundamentally wrong.
It is very worrying that your statement is conveying the viewpoint that a woman being raped is worse than a man being raped.
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