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Old 03-24-2012, 03:38 AM   #26
Dominic
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Lol...who gets tilted over online chat??? Deal with it or block it. Sheesh.
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:38 AM   #27
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Originally Posted by dirtydiana73 View Post
So tonight was up there as bad as it got for me on the table. I had 3 new players I never played with before call me the C word several ties during the session as well as 2 men talk about my hand WHILE MY HAND WAS IN PLAY! I went on tilt losing $150. I am at a point where I am going to give up online poker because of this BS. I would block chat all together but with the problems of people talking about my hands I can't. All suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Wow. Do you guys really have to deal with this type of behavior? I'm shocked and never realized this before. I have never been at a table where guys talk to women that way.

If someone ever calls you the "C" word, you should call the floor immediately. This isn't the 1800's and you're not playing poker in the wild west. Any respectable poker room should demand civilized behavior from and towards its patrons.

I guess I'm more shocked at how helpless some of you seem to be (or why you think you'd have to sit there and tolerate it). If you had to wrestle these guys, then I'd say you were out matched and should give it up. But you're playing poker. You're on a level playing field. Stick up for yourselves!

And I still can't get over the comment, "Turn around to we can see your ass"! Are you kidding me? If this girl was with a bug dude that guy's face would be a mess. What on earth would make someone think they could get away with saying that to a stranger?

I've personally never seen this type of behavior towards women at a poker table so I don't know where the heck you guys are playing. But you shouldn't put up with it for a second. Call the floor and have them kicked out. Unreal.
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:05 PM   #28
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Never have seen or heard this live before. Not saying this did not happen BTW. I just think it's fairly rare! The most common behavior for a woman to encounter is either being patronized or being mildly hit on. Both of these can be and should simply be assets to your game since they distract the guys doing it somewhat. Some women have trouble with the profanity, but I think you might as well just join in with that. If the language level tilts you poker is not for you. "Show us your ass" retort "You show me yours first , pal" " Rape" retort "I assure you that will not happen to me, pal"
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:12 PM   #29
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Lol...who gets tilted over online chat??? Deal with it or block it. Sheesh.
What I would expect from a troll who strolls in to give his 2 cents worth to us women who aren't "tough enough". I usually don't say anything but when players are purposely talking about my hand that I am in while it is still going on is not OK which in turn means I have to keep chat on so I am not losing out on money. The C word is not OK whether it is online or at the casino. If it is in your world you need to re-evaluate your life.

Live is not as bad because the behavior would not be tolerated so easily by the casino.
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Old 03-24-2012, 04:32 PM   #30
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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What I would expect from a troll who strolls in to give his 2 cents worth to us women who aren't "tough enough". I usually don't say anything but when players are purposely talking about my hand that I am in while it is still going on is not OK which in turn means I have to keep chat on so I am not losing out on money. The C word is not OK whether it is online or at the casino. If it is in your world you need to re-evaluate your life.

Live is not as bad because the behavior would not be tolerated so easily by the casino.
Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me a troll. And suggesting that I think saying the C-word to a woman is fine to do is unfair and incorrect.

However, when you're talking about online chat you know what you're getting. Either report the abuse to the poker site you're on or silence the chat.

To compare online "abuse" to a live poker setting is just plain silly.
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Old 03-24-2012, 05:14 PM   #31
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me a troll. And suggesting that I think saying the C-word to a woman is fine to do is unfair and incorrect.

However, when you're talking about online chat you know what you're getting. Either report the abuse to the poker site you're on or silence the chat.

To compare online "abuse" to a live poker setting is just plain silly.
Since when is abuse of any sort OK? Don't justify the actions of others because of their stupidity. If you read my previous post I have reported the abuse as well as players talking about my hands during a hand in play. For whatever reason Merge reacts slowly to ban chat of players who continuously slander players.
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:05 AM   #32
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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The C word is not OK whether it is online or at the casino. If it is in your world you need to re-evaluate your life.
Wait... I misread your post and thought this happened live. This was online? In that case, I agree with Dominic. Are you seriously going to take personally what some anonymous player says to someone who is also anonymous to them? For all you know it was another female, and for all they know, you're really a guy. If you're really this sensitive, maybe choose a unisex SN? On second thought, never mind. Something tells me you'd still find something to get offended by.
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Old 03-25-2012, 03:13 PM   #33
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

After my first response ITT, my thoughts haven't changed that much...but, I guess the answer is 'it depends'.

I don't get worked up online at all - if it does bother you, you can turn off chat I guess. As for the the C-word, although most people I know are offended by it, wouldn't bother me live either. Again, I'm not at all saying it's ok for that kind of behaviour to be used against someone, but yeah, doesn't bother me.

Eh, maybe I'm just too laid back or non-plussed or something.

AMDB9.
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:30 PM   #34
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

I did take a step back and look at the situation. I think most of my concern is talking about my hand while it is still in play and then the C word after I say something to them after that. I will take your advice in the future and thank you.
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:58 PM   #35
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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I did take a step back and look at the situation. I think most of my concern is talking about my hand while it is still in play and then the C word after I say something to them after that. I will take your advice in the future and thank you.
It IS irritating when people are talking about your hand online, but also advantageous for you...they are pretty much telling you what they think your range is....nice information right there right?

AMDB9.
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:55 PM   #36
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

I'm a little confused now about the live/online part; but assuming we're talking about live, one thing I believe is effective is to put the onus on dealer/floor to handle the problem. BTW, this is from a male.

For example, our casino on paper has a no obscenity rule at the table. Of course it gets violated all the time. And if a player let's out a F-word after a bad beat, everyone lets it slide. However, sometimes we will get a guy, either drunk or super rude, who is constantly F-this and F-that over and over very loudly. Or I've seen situations where a player is verbally abusing another player, but the player is too timid/embarrassed to confront the guy.

So what I like to do is rather than confronting the guy myself, is I turn to the dealer and say "it's your job to control this". That usually forces him to say something and stop the problem action. Often the dealers are reluctant to do this, as the rude/drunk guy may also be tipping them well. But that's too bad. Even when the insults aren't directed at me, I'll speak up. I don't enjoy playing at a table where others are being treated poorly either.

The casino is a business, and they need to be held accountable for providing a game that everyone is comfortable in. We each pay the same rake as the next person. No one has to put up with "boys club"/"locker room" crap because a casino is neither. It's a public business with paying customers.

So I'd suggest taking that approach rather than trying to stop the offender directly. Usually when you try yourself, a bigger argument will ensue, and the dealer/floor will end up getting involved anyway. Make the dealers do their jobs and enforce the rules.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:09 PM   #37
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Originally Posted by LigLury View Post
Both comments were utterly rude (I'm a guy btw). You need to perfect your "that was too stupid to waste my time with a response" look.

I also find it very hard to believe someone would actually say that to a lady they had no prior history with. Have you talked about your ass with these people before?


As a woman, i can tell you it's very believable. For any woman who is remotely goodlooking walking into a poker table surrounded by as, mentioned above, most likely loud, obnoious, drunk dirty men, it definitely happens. I often go with my boyfriend, and it seems every one of them is surprised when i actually win a hand. yes, some would say take it as a compliment, but i don't and find it extremely annoying especially when he is there to hear such comments.

no, not all men are like this, and sure, most guys are probably surprised that a girl, even a goodlooking one, can play, but it's still no excuse. the only thing to do is not respond to their comments, because it's what theyre looking to get out of you.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:43 AM   #38
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Trash talking is fine. Threats aren't. I can handle people saying how bad I play or any names they want to insist, but threatening a person takes it to a level that should be avoided.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:07 AM   #39
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

After trying out a few different techniques on the (few and far between) a-holes I've come across in poker, my favorite strategy is to completely ignore them. It's the best way to make him/her look like a moron. Every unanswered comment makes the offender look worse, and it's even better when someone else at the table says "enough already" in one way or another. If that fails, one sarcastic comment and headphones does the trick for me. I'm not there to entertain a d-bag.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:25 AM   #40
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For any woman who is remotely goodlooking walking into a poker table surrounded by as, mentioned above, most likely loud, obnoious, drunk dirty men, it definitely happens.
I think I'm supposed to resent this. You are stereotyping not only men, but poker players in general. You can find these people in all venues from poker rooms to bars. And here's a newsflash: There are plenty of women who are loud, obnoxious, and who think nothing of dropping a funny, witty, and sometimes rude, sexual innuendo!

I don't know what to say about men acting surprised when you win a hand. Maybe it has more to do with your game than your gender? There is nothing about being female that makes it any less likely to win a hand. And there is nothing that makes it any less likely that you'd be a formidable player (except that the majority of people who play poker aren't good players, and women make up a minority of the total population).

Quote:
no, not all men are like this, and sure, most guys are probably surprised that a girl, even a goodlooking one, can play, but it's still no excuse.
I don't know where you get this. I know girls who are exceptionally good players and demand respect from the entire table. And what does good looking have to do with it? You are stereotyping yourself here!


Quote:
the only thing to do is not respond to their comments, because it's what theyre looking to get out of you.
I agree with this. Putting people on tilt is a big part of some people's game (men or women). Don't play into their hands.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:38 AM   #41
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Trash talking is fine. Threats aren't. I can handle people saying how bad I play or any names they want to insist, but threatening a person takes it to a level that should be avoided.
I think there's an important distinction on what sort of "trash-talking" is and isn't allowed, though. Sexually based "trash talk" is inherently different from just calling someone a donk or a ****ing moron.

Bear in mind also that women may perceive an environment or person as threatening when they feel attacked in some way, even just verbally. Women are socialized from a very young age to be cognizant of their status as the weaker sex - we are (on average) smaller and much weaker than men, and are aware of the fact that we are far more likely (lifetime) to be victimized.

Just something to bear in mind. I think some people take this to extremes and construe every insult as some kind of threat, which just results in constantly feeling angry or insulted, which isn't much fun. But I think most men also don't take women's general sensitivity to being threatened into account, either, since it's not usually a mindset they can really understand.
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Old 04-04-2012, 05:47 PM   #42
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

The floor at live casinos has a lot of discretion (if not in reality, at least in how they apply it). If the word "rape" were ever used, I'd call the floor over and tell them in as matter of fact way as possible. I promise you that if someone said "I will kick your ass," they would have to do something about it. When things are said that amount to physical intimidation - which I think most of these comments were - you're definitely within your rights to do something about it.

Also, I think other people at the table would not sit idly by if you lodged a complaint under those circumstances.

If, for some reason, you don't have a reasonable opportunity to place elsewhere (another casino) or another table, I'd also ask the floor what happens if anything similar gets said by the same person / people (assuming they weren't removed from the table already). Then, if there are any mutterings after the fact, you can call the floor back. This sort of thing shouldn't be tolerated. You don't have to "play the victim" to make an issue of this sort of thing; it's completely well founded to make an issue of someone who is intimidating you, which is exactly what this is.
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Old 04-04-2012, 07:04 PM   #43
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Originally Posted by Wilco23 View Post
The floor at live casinos has a lot of discretion (if not in reality, at least in how they apply it). If the word "rape" were ever used, I'd call the floor over and tell them in as matter of fact way as possible. I promise you that if someone said "I will kick your ass," they would have to do something about it. When things are said that amount to physical intimidation - which I think most of these comments were - you're definitely within your rights to do something about it.

Also, I think other people at the table would not sit idly by if you lodged a complaint under those circumstances.

If, for some reason, you don't have a reasonable opportunity to place elsewhere (another casino) or another table, I'd also ask the floor what happens if anything similar gets said by the same person / people (assuming they weren't removed from the table already). Then, if there are any mutterings after the fact, you can call the floor back. This sort of thing shouldn't be tolerated. You don't have to "play the victim" to make an issue of this sort of thing; it's completely well founded to make an issue of someone who is intimidating you, which is exactly what this is.
Well said Wilco23. I have also witnessed the floor get involved and assist with troublesome players. They should be your resort when things get nasty and often you will be backed as this has no place in a casino or in others..
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:20 PM   #44
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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I also find it very hard to believe someone would actually say that to a lady they had no prior history with. Have you talked about your ass with these people before?
Um, let me think . . . nope. Visiting a different country. Canada fwiw. I don't talk about my ass at US tables either. If I had my way I would never play live.
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Old 04-05-2012, 08:16 PM   #45
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

I read the OP and a few replies.

I have not read the whole thread.

I am male. I may be able to provide a different perspective.

I posted a poll one time here on 2+2 about rudeness as a tactical weapon in poker. The question was phrased badly so responders qualified their votes. Some thought rudeness unethical. Some thought rudeness unethical but tactically sound. I stuck with the poll and in the end over 200 people voted in a simple yes/no poll. 56% of those polled thought rudeness was okay.

So, not only have you to put up with neanderthals who do not know any better but also the amoral who just think it is a weapon of poker.

I play predominantly online as it is easy to block the chat and I am only recreational. I am aware that since Black Friday US players cannot play online so commiserations.

FWIW, I think there is a line and each of us has to draw it for herself.

I hope there was little redundancy in this post.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:24 PM   #46
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

My wife plays poker . . . if I wouldn't say it to my Mom, you better not say it to my wife. And that would go for any other woman at the table, too.

That is my line.
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:01 PM   #47
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Originally Posted by SGT RJ View Post
I've been called the c word once before. Granted he was drunk and obnoxious to everyone, but everyone at the table was pretty shocked he went that far with me. One guy at the table just stared and him and told him to "shut the **** up", and he left about five minutes later.
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My wife plays poker . . . if I wouldn't say it to my Mom, you better not say it to my wife. And that would go for any other woman at the table, too.

That is my line.
I rest my case. As long as there are men who write blank cheques like this, women will in fact face a lesser chance of physical reprisal when standing up to someone that is bullying them than any man would in a similar situation. So if you're being bullied, call the floor and explain things plainly. It's not "victim blaming" of any sort, it's good practical advice to put an end to an uncomfortable situation that someone else has put you in. I tell both my children to get a teacher or adult of authority involved when being harassed by a bully, as I'm sure many parents do.

Last edited by Moose; 04-06-2012 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:43 AM   #48
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

Seriously? Can a mod explain why my post got deleted?
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:10 PM   #49
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

PM the mod to find out. Expect both our posts to be deleted as this is not something to discuss in the thread.
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:56 AM   #50
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Re: Where do you guys draw the line on questionable verbal talk at table?

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Seriously? Can a mod explain why my post got deleted?
Because your posts were part of a derail of this thread. If you actually read the title of the thread, it is about where a woman draws the line about questionable verbal talk, not whether this line is justifiable in a someone else's mind.

As Henry Kissinger famously said, "even paranoids have real enemies."

If you need to discuss it further, you can PM me.
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