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Old 07-03-2011, 02:31 AM   #1
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Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

For those of you who don't know her, Rosa Lee Klaneski is a transgender woman who has played in several poker tournaments (including ladies events). Her license / passport list her as a woman.

It was brought to my attention today that Wicked Chops Poker included a picture of her in their July 1 post about dbag men who played in the WSOP ladies event. (Rosa Lee is in the bottom left photo.)




On July 1, Jen Shahade alerted WCP via Twitter to the fact that Rosa Lee identifies as a woman, and WCP responded via Twitter to thank Jen for the tip. No change was made to the WCP website at that time.

On July 2, Rise Poker (which has affiliations with Wicked Chops Poker) used that same picture of her in their "Cap-tion This" contest under the "eyebrow-raise-inducing" category.




A firestorm erupted over Twitter from multiple members of the poker community who disagreed with those posts.

Approximately 5 hours ago, Rise Poker removed the photo of Rosa Lee from their "Cap-tion This" contest and included the following statement: "Note: the original photo we had in this post was intended to draw humorous responses regarding pearl necklaces and cleavage -- and NOT to poke fun at any transgendered people. To avoid that issue we've changed the photo."

(IMO, that disclaimer is total BS CYA.)

Approximately 30 minutes ago, Wicked Chops Poker removed the photo of Rosa Lee from their dbags post with no statement or apology about its inclusion.

While I am happy to see that both sites removed the photos of Rosa Lee as used in that manner, I still found it very disheartening that those sites (1) included her in the category of dbag men who played in the ladies event and (2) effectively made (or asked other people to make) a mockery of her.

IMO, there is still a lot of misunderstanding / hatred toward our GLBT friends that needs to stop.

(Mods feel free to move to another forum if inappropriate for TWSS, but IMO the TWSS community has been more receptive to our GLBT friends than other forums may be.)

Last edited by CKBWoP; 07-03-2011 at 02:32 AM. Reason: TY to JN for use of the screen shots.
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Old 07-03-2011, 02:54 AM   #2
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Thanks for posting this; I too was outraged by the cruelty.

I will be writing an article (not sure of the venue for publication) about men in ladies tournaments that also discusses that transgendered women should (of course) be openly accepted in Ladies tournaments.

Glad to see that so many of the women in poker (CKBWOP obv among them ) erupted in being as offended as I felt. I think that strides were made in terms of getting the sites to take down the mean posts and to let the poker world know that prejudice won't be tolerated.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:06 AM   #3
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

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Originally Posted by hotjenny314 View Post
Glad to see that so many of the women in poker (CKBWOP obv among them ) erupted in being as offended as I felt.
Some of us men were pretty offended too.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:07 AM   #4
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

If you didn't have a tournament where one of the main focal points is exclusion of certain people this really wouldn't be an issue.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:25 AM   #5
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

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If you didn't have a tournament where one of the main focal points is exclusion of certain people this really wouldn't be an issue.
Wrong time, wrong issue.

There is no direct relationship between the existence of Ladies-only poker tournaments and the open mocking of transgendered people.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:41 AM   #6
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

I think it's the core issues.

Somewhere along the line it was decided that if men could not be legally prohibited from entering women's events that mocking and abusing them was the best thing to do.

Every time a man is eliminated there are cheers and the men who do enter are constantly being berated, verbally abused, and belittled both at the event and in the media coverage.

It's in this spirit of "acceptable" abuse and ridicule that Klaneski got caught up in because of her unique situation.

There shouldn't be acceptable abuse of anyone because of whatever their gender happens to be, by birth or surgery.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:51 AM   #7
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

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Wrong time, wrong issue.

There is no direct relationship between the existence of Ladies-only poker tournaments and the open mocking of transgendered people.
But there is a direct relationship between the statement "prejudice will not be tolerated" and an avowedly sexist tournament. Those guys are douches because they are spreading the hate they rightly have for men that play in a tournament to a man who self-identifies as a woman playing in that same tournament?

I know, I know. Nobody hates men. We just hate men that feel comfortable in pants. They might as well be Hitler.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:57 AM   #8
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotton Hill View Post
I think it's the core issues.

Somewhere along the line it was decided that if men could not be legally prohibited from entering women's events that mocking and abusing them was the best thing to do.

Every time a man is eliminated there are cheers and the men who do enter are constantly being berated, verbally abused, and belittled both at the event and in the media coverage.

It's in this spirit of "acceptable" abuse and ridicule that Klaneski got caught up in because of her unique situation.

There shouldn't be acceptable abuse of anyone because of whatever their gender happens to be, by birth or surgery.
I think you raise a very interesting point.

Do you think the fact that several men have played the ladies event dressed in drag (as a joke or b/c of a lost prop bet, and not because that man generally is a cross-dresser) has further complicated the issue? I think it may . . .

Last edited by CKBWoP; 07-03-2011 at 04:04 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 07-03-2011, 04:19 AM   #9
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

WCP know what they're doing and they obviously know who Rosa Lee is. Posting her picture was no mistake, it was meant to be provocative.

It's about time the WSOP had a 1k Gentleman's Event on the same day so that we don't have actual dbags playing the Ladies Event.

In my opinion there should be more restricted events. eg. 1k 7CS, 1k LH
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Old 07-03-2011, 04:25 AM   #10
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotton Hill View Post
It's in this spirit of "acceptable" abuse and ridicule that Klaneski got caught up in because of her unique situation.

There shouldn't be acceptable abuse of anyone because of whatever their gender happens to be, by birth or surgery.
Of course it's acceptable to abuse and ridicule people who choose to mock something, which is exactly what men playing in these events is. They are being blatantly rude, so guess what? I will return the favor. Using that as any kind of leverage in an argument that it's okay to discriminate against a trans woman is just really unfair. They are totally unrelated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ Nemeth View Post
Wrong time, wrong issue.

There is no direct relationship between the existence of Ladies-only poker tournaments and the open mocking of transgendered people.
Exactly! If one identifies as a woman, and lives her daily life as a woman, then she is a woman and IMO, more than welcome in these events.

which is why....
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Originally Posted by CKBWoP View Post
I think you raise a very interesting point.

Do you think the fact that several men have played the ladies event dressed in drag (as a joke or b/c of a lost prop bet, and not because that man generally is a cross-dresser) has further complicated the issue? I think it may . . .
shouldn't further complicate the issue. Dressing in drag, especially as a joke or to mock, is completely different than sexual identity. Trans people do not what they do to offend or to get special treatment. That is how they choose to live their lives. I identify as a woman and was fortunate to be born female, but not everyone was. I would hate to have to live my life feeling that my genitals did not match what was going on in my brain. You either have to choose to live in denial or deal with bigotry and hate on a daily basis.

I heard more animosity from men about her playing than women. And FWIW, I think women are some of the biggest haters out there! You should have heard the commotion made by the players when Elaine (the gorgeous tall blonde in the pink mini dress and high heels - picture on wicked chops photo dump) walked through the room.

Quote:
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It's about time the WSOP had a 1k Gentleman's Event on the same day so that we don't have actual dbags playing the Ladies Event.
But the women's event is such a soft field! LOL. I'm kidding. Yes, in some ways it is, but there are a lot of tough players.

Last edited by pezbaby; 07-03-2011 at 04:41 AM.
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Old 07-03-2011, 04:36 AM   #11
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

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Originally Posted by BJ Nemeth View Post
Some of us men were pretty offended too.
Yes, ofc and didn't mean to exclude men , just was alluding to the many replies/retweets with frequent (female) TWSS posters. Your tweets really helped expose the mean situation to a lot of people.
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Old 07-03-2011, 06:01 AM   #12
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Pez-

I think you missed my point. What I was trying to get at is that if a photographer is given the task of photographing every "guy" who played in the ladies event so somebody can publish a post and shame all the "guys" who played, whether in drag or not, but know that some "guys" will dress in drag for the event, it's possible for someone to look at Rosa Lee and confuse her for a "guy" who is dressed in drag.

While it may not be fair to women like Rosa Lee, I think a lot of people who are less enlightened about trans matters might not be able to appropriately identify her.

(Don't even get me started about issues re: the need to "identify" in the first place . . . )
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Old 07-03-2011, 07:19 AM   #13
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Except Rosa has clearly had a breast augmentation. How can anyone think that she is a guy in drag?
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:01 AM   #14
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

This appears to be a case where both WCP & Rise Poker failed to realize that this person is transgender and not a man playing in a WSOP Ladies Only Event. I believe without question this was an honest mistake on their part.
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:03 AM   #15
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKBWoP View Post
it's possible for someone to look at Rosa Lee and confuse her for a "guy" who is dressed in drag.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappa View Post
This appears to be a case where both WCP & Rise Poker failed to realize that this person is transgender and not a man playing in a WSOP Ladies Only Event. I believe without question this was an honest mistake on their part.
Anyone who's been in the poker scene for 5 minutes should know Rosa Lee and her story.
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