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**Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread** **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

09-06-2014 , 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle227
Not sure if it is the reason for others, but too many people I have known that claimed the 'bi' label tended not to be able to commit.
Tell me if I'm wrong, but my interpretation of this sentence is: "In my experience, people aren't actually bi, but those who claim to be so are still exploring their sexuality and therefore won't settle down yet." I base this interpretation on you saying that the label is claimed (indicating you don't believe it) and you putting bi in quotes (again indicating disbelief in it).

It's certainly true that some people call themselves bisexual as sort of a temporary stepping stone. However, it's also certainly true that some people truly are bisexual (and this doesn't mean precisely equal attraction to males and females, but instead enough attraction to both that heterosexual and homosexual feel inappropriately applied to them). There's nothing about being bisexual that makes them unable to commit or be content with the person they're with, regardless of that person's gender.

For the record, I'm gay, not even a little bi. My boyfriend, on the other hand, has naked women on his tumblr and has been with girls before. We've been together for 13 months, and he's already been talking about our future wedding and kids -- if anything, he seems more committed to this than I am.
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09-06-2014 , 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle227
sorry but I don't believe in the 'every kid gets a trophy' sort of PC nonsense...people are allowed to have their preferences. And just as I have absolutely ZERO desire to sleep or date men, I also have a preference not to sleep or date with people who have slept with men.

For anyone to even suggest otherwise is to erase lesbians from the landscape. It's bad enough watching the social justice warriors trying to erase female from the landscape and destroy space that was womyn-only (see the recent debacle surrounding MichFest or ANY attempt by women to gather outside of the presence of persons born male).
This is incredibly ignorant. People's sexuality do not define the kind of person that they are, if you believe that then you are no better than the people who think gays shouldn't get married.
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09-06-2014 , 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protential
This is incredibly ignorant. People's sexuality do not define the kind of person that they are, if you believe that then you are no better than the people who think gays shouldn't get married.
I didn't say it DID define them...the question was posed and I offered an observation of what I have seen in 30+ years of being an out lesbian (you know, longer than some of the SJW's have even been alive). And the fact that I am not inclined to sleep with, date or view as partners someone who id's as bi is a personal choice just as ANY person is entitled to their preferences in prospective partners. Anyone that claims otherwise is acquiescing to rape culture mentalities...
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09-06-2014 , 06:45 PM
I consider it massively distasteful for you to invoke rape culture but also hilarious that you did it in such a bizarre, irrelevant way that doesn't aid your incoherent argument at all
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09-06-2014 , 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle227
sorry but I don't believe in the 'every kid gets a trophy' sort of PC nonsense...people are allowed to have their preferences. And just as I have absolutely ZERO desire to sleep or date men, I also have a preference not to sleep or date with people who have slept with men.

For anyone to even suggest otherwise is to erase lesbians from the landscape. It's bad enough watching the social justice warriors trying to erase female from the landscape and destroy space that was womyn-only (see the recent debacle surrounding MichFest or ANY attempt by women to gather outside of the presence of persons born male).
Ah so you are a TERF. It is disappointing when people who are discriminated against turn around and start discriminating against those who have less power than them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle227
I didn't say it DID define them...the question was posed and I offered an observation of what I have seen in 30+ years of being an out lesbian (you know, longer than some of the SJW's have even been alive). And the fact that I am not inclined to sleep with, date or view as partners someone who id's as bi is a personal choice just as ANY person is entitled to their preferences in prospective partners. Anyone that claims otherwise is acquiescing to rape culture mentalities...
Yes it is a personal choice. A bigoted personal choice. You are a bigot; you are bigoted against bisexual and transgender people.
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09-06-2014 , 08:42 PM
Just to anticipate your potential response and to clarify my own:

You are indeed allowed to have a sexual preference for whoever you want, and no-one has the right to tell you not to, but to predetermine your sexual choices for political reasons is not ok and as I alluded to earlier is akin to me deciding not to sleep with or date non-white girls.
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09-07-2014 , 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranma4703
Ah so you are a TERF. It is disappointing when people who are discriminated against turn around and start discriminating against those who have less power than them.
How ironic that you rail on about discrimination in the very same breath that you elected to introduce a slur (TERF) into the discussion. The ones using TERF to slur others are those that cannot seem to handle members of class female actually having opinions and being able to use critical thinking abilities...


Quote:
Yes it is a personal choice. A bigoted personal choice. You are a bigot; you are bigoted against bisexual and transgender people.
Really, you want to bring cotton ceiling thinking to the table now?

I miss the days where I could come to a poker forum and have it be a break from that bull****. Sadly it seems even that area has now been invaded by the SJW's wanting to label people...
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09-07-2014 , 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle227
How ironic that you rail on about discrimination in the very same breath that you elected to introduce a slur (TERF) into the discussion. The ones using TERF to slur others are those that cannot seem to handle members of class female actually having opinions and being able to use critical thinking abilities...
Fine. I should have just said you are a trans exclusionist feminist, and dropped the radical part. Mind attacking what I actually said, instead of some straw man you're constructing? I am a feminist, I believe in equality for ALL women, cis and trans.


Quote:
Really, you want to bring cotton ceiling thinking to the table now?.
I had to google cotton ceiling. Honestly, not sure how I feel about it - there are real, physical differences between having sex with a cis person and a trans person, and if your reasons for not wanting to sleep with a trans person are entirely related to those reasons, then I don't think I have a problem. However, if you wouldn't apply those same standards to a cis person, such as refusing to date a woman with breast implants and a medically damaged vagina, then I would say you are making your decisions based on your own negative beliefs about trans woman.

This however does not apply to bisexual people. A bisexual woman in a monogamous relationship with another woman is externally indistinguishable from a lesbian woman in the same relationship. Your entire issue with dating them stems from who they were born as, something completely outside of their control. Hell, if we believe Kinsey, you have probably slept with bisexual woman already, who have chosen to 'pick a side' purely because of regressive, harmful attitudes such as yours.

Or does it purely stem from them self identifying as bisexual? Would you be fine sleeping with a bisexual woman who tells you she is a lesbian?

Quote:
I miss the days where I could come to a poker forum and have it be a break from that bull****. Sadly it seems even that area has now been invaded by the SJW's wanting to label people...
If you want to have a break from this bull****, you can go anywhere else on 2p2. This is specifically the GLBTQ thread, and we are supportive of our trans allies, without whom Stonewall and the modern queer rights movement may never have happened.
No, I'm just saying you are bigoted against trans and bisexual people - do you deny this? As much as I hate the whole quote a dictionary thing...
Quote:
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
You admit that you are intolerant of trans women; you don't want them in women only spaces. Do you not think that trans women face the same misogyny that cis women face?



Finally, I was going to denounce the SJW tag (ironic that you use that right after getting upset at me for using TERF) since I don't have a tumblr, I've never identified that way, and it always gets used in a negative context. But you know what? I am a social justice warrior. I fight for social justice. If someone says something racist, misogynistic, homophobic, or transphobic around me, I say something. I want the spaces around me to be safe spaces for everyone, and I want everyone to be able to realize their potential free from the biases of the majority. You throw that term at me as an insult, but I'll put it on and wear it proudly, because isn't social justice what we all should be fighting for?
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09-07-2014 , 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle227
I also have a preference not to sleep or date with people who have slept with men.

For anyone to even suggest otherwise is to erase lesbians from the landscape.
Could you please elaborate this for me? Im understanding your comment as, if lesbians sleep with bi girls it threatens lesbianism?
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09-11-2014 , 10:42 AM
Let me know if you want to be added to a group chat on skype of glbtq players. 7 of us so far, chat was just made.
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09-13-2014 , 10:19 PM
FWIW I have no problem with bi guys.

I actually think it's pretty hot.

But I have heard of this particular problem with bi guys in particular, which is really rooted in nothing more than stereotypes about what it means to be bisexual.
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09-14-2014 , 03:26 AM
Right. If i'm in a relationship and i'm gonna cheat, i'm gonna cheat. If i'm in a relationship and not gonna cheat, i'm not gonna cheat. Bisexuality is little different from having a preference for different types of people. I'm sure there are many bisexuals out there who are attracted to a small absolute number of people compared to some highly sexualised straight people.

I'm sure that this stereotype only exists because it's more painful to grt cheated on with someone of the opposite sex.
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09-29-2014 , 03:48 PM
Hi everyone,

Very interesting thread here. I don't know where it came from but the other day I sat and I wondered about openly gay men in poker and I realised I don't know of even one. I am not massive on my poker celebs or any celebs for that matter but it struck me that there must be so many gay men who for one reason or another do not feel they can be open about it. I would imagine it is because of the same reason that there are not so many women who play... Poker unfortunately is a very 'lad' dominated world.

Hopefully this is something that will fizzle out as it is in general in some parts of the world, I think times are moving on fast in that respect. I was talking to my little sister in law the other day and she was telling me how she set up two of her male friends and they are now dating. Just hearing about how these boys are openly gay in school, that just didn't happen even when I was at school ( About 12 years ago ) It is great to see how things are progressing and I hope that will go for poker too.

For me anyone should be or look, absolutely however they want as long as they are not hurting anyone else. If someone wants to dress or be a certain way or love someone, who is anyone to judge?
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09-29-2014 , 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Keri
Hi everyone,

Very interesting thread here. I don't know where it came from but the other day I sat and I wondered about openly gay men in poker and I realised I don't know of even one. I am not massive on my poker celebs or any celebs for that matter but it struck me that there must be so many gay men who for one reason or another do not feel they can be open about it. I would imagine it is because of the same reason that there are not so many women who play... Poker unfortunately is a very 'lad' dominated world.

Hopefully this is something that will fizzle out as it is in general in some parts of the world, I think times are moving on fast in that respect. I was talking to my little sister in law the other day and she was telling me how she set up two of her male friends and they are now dating. Just hearing about how these boys are openly gay in school, that just didn't happen even when I was at school ( About 12 years ago ) It is great to see how things are progressing and I hope that will go for poker too.

For me anyone should be or look, absolutely however they want as long as they are not hurting anyone else. If someone wants to dress or be a certain way or love someone, who is anyone to judge?
Jason Somerville is openly gay and crushes
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09-29-2014 , 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranma4703
Jason Somerville is openly gay and crushes
Haha, I'm sure there are a few. As I said, I am not massive on celeb poker players
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10-03-2014 , 10:11 PM
There are a handful of us who play professionally, not many tho. (I know of like 8, including myself)
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10-04-2014 , 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protential
Let me know if you want to be added to a group chat on skype of glbtq players. 7 of us so far, chat was just made.
I'd be interested in joining this chat if possible!
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10-11-2014 , 01:14 AM
apparently the first gay marriage in kansas happened today.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local...le2650802.html

this has exciting implications. I would like to briefly mention that Sam Brownback and the republican leadership in kansas have gone so far to the right that Paul Davis and Jill Docking could win the governership and its going to be an incredibly close election.

I have posted some stuff about sam brownbacks insane leadership in a spoiler because its basically all politics.

Spoiler:

Abortion
Brownback is pro-life and opposes abortion in all cases except when the life of the pregnant woman is in danger. He has a 100 percent pro-life voting record according to the National Right to Life Committee. Brownback also supports parental notification for minors who seek an abortion and opposes Partial Birth Abortion.[72][73] Brownback was personally anti-abortion though politically pro-choice during the early days of his career.[74] Brownback has more recently stated, "I see it as the lead moral issue of our day, just like slavery was the lead moral issue 150 years ago."[75] On May 3, 2007, when asked his opinion of repealing Roe v. Wade, Brownback said, "It would be a glorious day of human liberty and freedom."[76]

In 2007, Brownback stated he "could support a pro-choice nominee" to the presidency, because "this is a big coalition party."[77]

Evolution

Brownback has stated that he is a devout believer in a higher power and rejects macroevolution, or the development over time of new species from older ones.[87] Brownback favors giving teachers the freedom to use intelligent design to critique evolutionary theory as part of the Teach the Controversy approach:

There's intelligence involved in the overall of creation. ...I don't think we're really at the point of teaching this in the classroom. I think what we passed in the U.S. Senate in 2002 the Santorum Amendment is really what we should be doing, and that is that you teach the controversy, you teach what is fact is fact, and what is theory is theory, and you move from that proceedings, rather than from teaching some sort of different thought. And this, I really think that's the area we should concentrate on at the present time, is teaching the controversy.[88]

— Senator Sam Brownback, Larry King Live, CNN, August 23, 2005''

He has supported the Discovery Institute, hub of the intelligent design movement, and has argued extensively on their behalf during Discovery Institute intelligent design campaigns such as the Santorum Amendment, Teach the Controversy, and against the denial of tenure at Iowa State University to Institute Fellow Guillermo Gonzalez. The university presented an extensively documented case that tenure for Gonzalez was denied due to sub-par research and academic performance, and not for his teaching intelligent design.[89][90][91][92]

LGBT issues

Brownback has stated that he believes homosexuality to be immoral as a violation of both Catholic doctrine[107] and natural law.[108] He has voted against gay rights, receiving zeros in four of the last five scorecards as a U.S. senator from the Human Rights Campaign.[109][110][111][112][113] He opposes both same-sex marriage and same-sex civil union.[108] He opposes adding sexual orientation and gender identity to federal laws that address hate crime.[108][114] He has declined to state a position on gay adoption,[115][116] although a candidate for chair of the Kansas Republican Party claims he was blackballed by political operatives affiliated with Brownback for not opposing gay adoption.[117] Brownback supported "don't ask, don't tell,"[118] the U.S. government's ban on openly gay and lesbian people in the military. Brownback has associated with leading anti-gay organizations, including the Family Research Council[119][120] and American Family Association.[121][122]

In 2003, Brownback worked with Alliance for Marriage and Traditional Values Coalition to introduce a Senate bill containing the Federal Marriage Amendment, a proposed amendment to the United States Constitution that would federally prohibit same-sex marriage in the United States.[123][124][125][126] The bill was a response to Goodridge v. Department of Public Health, the Massachusetts state court decision finding that same-sex couples had the right to marry in Massachusetts.[123][124][125] In reaction to the Goodridge decision, Brownback stated that same-sex marriage threatened the health of American families and culture.[127]

In 2006, Brownback blocked the confirmation of federal judicial nominee Janet T. Neff because she had attended a same-sex commitment ceremony.[128][129][130] At first, he agreed to lift the block only if Neff would recuse herself from all cases involving same-sex unions.[128][129][130] Brownback later dropped his opposition.[128][129][130]

In April 2011, Brownback began work on a Kansas government program to promote marriage, in part through grants to faith-based social service organizations.[131][132] Early meetings involved national opponents of same-sex marriage.[131] The Brownback administration says the program will exclude gay and lesbian families.[131] In June 2011, the administration revised contract expectations for social work organizations to promote married mother-father families.[133][134] It explained the change as benefiting children.[133][134]

In January 2012, Brownback did not include Kansas's sodomy law in a list of unenforced and outdated laws that the legislature should repeal.[135][136][137][138] Gay rights advocates had asked his administration to recommend its repeal because the law has been unenforceable since the Supreme Court's Lawrence v. Texas decision in 2003.[135][136][137][138][139]

In February 2012, the Brownback administration supported a religious freedom bill that would have stopped cities, school districts, universities, and executive agencies from having nondiscrimination laws or policies that covered sexual orientation or gender identity.[140][141][142]

In 2013, after oral arguments in United States v. Windsor, the U.S. Supreme Court case striking down part of the Defense of Marriage Act, Brownback publicly reaffirmed his opposition to same-sex marriage.[143]

In 2014, the U.S. Supreme Court denied petitions to review several federal appellate decisions overturning state bans on same-sex marriage.[144][145] The court’s actions favored repeal of Kansas's ban on same-sex marriage because two of the appeals (Kitchen v. Herbert and Bishop v. Oklahoma) originated in the United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit, which includes Kansas.[144][145] In response, Brownback defended Kansas's same-sex marriage ban as being supported by a majority of Kansas voters and criticized "activist judges" for "overruling" the people of Kansas.[146][147][148]


I am only bringing this up because I think that if Sam Brownback gets kicked out of office and polling numbers continue to improve for gay marriage I think after centuries of murder and anti-gay cults Kansas could actually become a place where gay couples in johnson county and lawrence and whichita could actually live happy lives
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11-23-2014 , 12:25 AM
I was with my boyfriend tonight at Pier 1. He asked me what something was and I said, "A cheese board, or plate of some kind?" Some older guy walking by then said, "It's a cheese board. What kind of gay boy are you?"

I was very taken aback. I wasn't like offended in anyway, but how did he know? He had to be sure to say that, it couldn't have been a guess. I guess he was gay himself, but still. No one in my life ever know that I'm gay. My gay neighbor says that shopping at Pier 1 with another guy was the giveaway - maybe he's right?

For the record, I said, "Not a very good one I guess." He responded, "I see you still have your training wheels on."
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11-23-2014 , 05:32 AM
Despite me being pretty straight-acting, a couple of people have really surprised me by asking if I'm bisexual very early on in the conversation. Always leaves me a little stunned that some people are both that perceptive and have the guts to ask me straight out (forgive the pun)
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11-27-2014 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganstaman
I was with my boyfriend tonight at Pier 1. He asked me what something was and I said, "A cheese board, or plate of some kind?" Some older guy walking by then said, "It's a cheese board. What kind of gay boy are you?"

I was very taken aback. I wasn't like offended in anyway, but how did he know? He had to be sure to say that, it couldn't have been a guess. I guess he was gay himself, but still. No one in my life ever know that I'm gay. My gay neighbor says that shopping at Pier 1 with another guy was the giveaway - maybe he's right?

For the record, I said, "Not a very good one I guess." He responded, "I see you still have your training wheels on."
lol.

Pier1 + Boyfriend with you = give away. :P

I hope everyone has a fabulous Thanksgiving!
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11-27-2014 , 03:30 PM
Had a conversation about homosexuality with a very conservative religious person at the university. He asked me why (Z)oophilia isn't included in the GLBTQ(Z). I thought it was a ****ed up thing to say but then he was like "to each his own. I was a little stunned...appropriate response?
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11-27-2014 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by isplashcranberrys
Had a conversation about homosexuality with a very conservative religious person at the university. He asked me why (Z)oophilia isn't included in the GLBTQ(Z). I thought it was a ****ed up thing to say but then he was like "to each his own. I was a little stunned...appropriate response?
As a rule of thumb I ignore completely anything crazy conservative religious people say.
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11-27-2014 , 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by isplashcranberrys
Had a conversation about homosexuality with a very conservative religious person at the university. He asked me why (Z)oophilia isn't included in the GLBTQ(Z). I thought it was a ****ed up thing to say but then he was like "to each his own. I was a little stunned...appropriate response?
Tell him its an offensive analogy.

I also tend to avoid engaging conservative religious folk in most forms of conversation
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01-08-2015 , 07:34 PM
I haven't been around 2p2 much the past few months, but stopped by here to comment on the Leelah Alcorn situation.

While obviously not poker related at all, the suicide note of a young transgendered woman has made headlines this past week.

It's sad when directly confronted with the fact that so many people are still so unwilling to accept others, even their own children. It has gotten better, in recent years, for gender and sexual minorities, but things are far from perfect, and this young woman was another in a score of casualties as we, as a society, claw our way towards full human rights for everyone, regardless of their gender, sexuality, race, religion, disability, or other factors that might make someone "different" or frightening to certain people.

RIP, Leelah. I hope your death will accomplish something in the end.
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