Hi All,

I am interested in opening a legal poker house in Houston like the on in Austin. Does anyone know how I can obtain the business permit with city? Can anybody point me to the right direction ( good lawyer etc.). I do not want to do anything illegal. Thank you so much!

I live in San Antonio and our city just opened a card room. This card room is able to get around anti gambling laws because there is no rake taken from the pots. The card room charges a $10 cover fee at the door and at the end of the night you pay $6 for every hour you played at the table. These are called membership fees and loop around anti gambling laws. They also have tournaments in which you pay a $16 cover charge and no additional fees taken from the buy in. Tourney buy ins range 30-75 bucks. All cash tables are 1-2 max 500. Also you are not allowed to tip the dealers with chips off the table. All the money must stay on table until you cash out.

I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts On this format and if they have seen it before. I know there is a similar card room that opened in Austin this year.

Card rooms have operated in this way in Ohio for years. I thought when the casinos opened here that they would go away but a few are still up and running and a couple have actually opened since the casinos have opened.

The legality of these rooms is questionable given that the operators still make money from running a gaming operation. I'm moving this thread to Poker Legislation where discussion of legal gray areas is permitted.

Yep, it is an attempt to get around Texas stringent anti-gambling laws based on the exemption in Texas law for home games. I am not aware of any court opinions on the subject, but it would hardly be a stretch for an anti-poker prosecutor to conclude that the fees are merely rake in disguise and initiate a case. But by the same token, a non-aggressive prosecutor might look the other way - especially if there are no public complaints - since the fees are not traditional rake. The statute reads:

"(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) the actor engaged in gambling in a private place;

(2) no person received any economic benefit other than personal winnings; and

(3) except for the advantage of skill or luck, the risks of losing and the chances of winning were the same for all participants."

Obviously the place is receiving an economic benefit in its fees, but is it "from the gaming"? Does that matter? Time will tell.

Skallagrim

I would contact the owner of the Texas Card House and ask him for advice. He might be willing to 'sell' you a franchise, so to speak. It could very well be money well spent down the line. If it assures you of no legal troubles.

In Houston, the Texas Card House business model would have problems with the City of Houston Game Room Ordinance here:
https://www2.municode.com/library/tx...H5AM_ARTVIGARO

Texas Card House's business model relies on membership fees to make money. I've highlighted the problems this causes with the ordinance:
Sec. 5-162. - License required.
(a) It shall be unlawful for an owner or operator of a game room to operate, use, or maintain a game room without first obtaining city game room license and if required under this article, a county game room permit.
(b) It shall be unlawful to operate, use or maintain any room or place in the city where persons are permitted to play at any game of dominoes, cards or other games, and for the use of which, or privilege of playing therein or thereat, any money or its equivalent, or any check or counter in lieu of money shall be paid or received, or where memberships are sold for anything of value for the privilege of playing therein or thereat, without first securing a license therefor.
(c) An application for an existing game room location that is submitted by an individual who is different from the individual named as the owner or operator on the current application or a re-application for an existing game room location after denial or revocation shall be considered a new application and not a renewal.

Harris County also has a similar ordinance. So, you're going to need to get a game room license if you want to stay legal. Given that the city enacted its game room ordinance to stop the spread of game rooms...unfortunately getting a license is going to be exceedingly difficult.

We are opening on May 19. It is 100% legal. We formed our business. We even went ahead and called the Vice Department in Houston and spoke to a Sargent. We followed the rules exactly (Not going to mention the details). We are opening as an entertainment lounge offering rake and tip free poker, air hockey, foosball and board games. We charge an membership fee and players can play anything they want. Website is up too. We will do a promo for two days for a tournament where we put 500 extra in to the prize pool and free membership. We still deciding on the promo of the opening date and will update on the website.

www.texasallinlounge.com

FYI, the Houston Police Department doesn't give legal advice...nor is that a legal defense if you are arrested. The District Attorney's office also doesn't give legal advice to the public. You really need to talk with a good, knowledgeable defense attorney who is familiar with local, state, and federal gambling laws and ordinances.

I looked at the website...though I don't think the mods like you posting links like that. It looks like you're going to run afoul of the Houston ordinance I posted earlier. You're also appearing to make some of the same mistakes that Texas Card House has made that keeps their establishment from being legal.

That said, I'm not an attorney. I really hope you consult with one.

Thank you for your advice. I will investigate further.

Good grief. Rule #1 for getting legal advice is never ask the police. You ask a lawyer that specializes in that area.

We asked our lawyer and vice department. Both of them said it is in the grey area. Our lawyer advised us to call the vice department and local police department to make sure they are ok with it. As Vice Sargent stated that we cannot make the room poker gambling specific and it should be fine. The local police department says that they would not comment. We even called the Austin Vice Department too. And they told us that each department interpret the code differently. So we are adding all the extra games and got even the genera round table for play any games to ensure we do not get into trouble.

If your lawyer advised you to call the police to ask, I'd get a new lawyer.

how was opening night!!??

going to open today

Delayed opening first day to yesterday. Had really successful opening night. Did tournament and then cash! We are doing rake free and tip free and no charge at all now PM for details.

Alamo Card House in San Antonio apparently got raided by police a few days ago and received fines, for not having a Certificate of Occupancy of all things, smh. It sounds like a warning to me and I wouldn't be surprised on people being arrested next time. I love Texas but really sick of our BS laws regarding poker/gambling.

At least you can open carry now!!. Do any of these poker rooms post 30.06 or 30.07 signs?

About half the players in my player pool have played at these rooms in Austin and San Marcos. There isn't a night when someone isn't telling a story about what happened. The rooms are busy, with enough traffic to be obvious. They are in commercial locations not in some backroom of an apartment like some of the other old style card rooms in Austin. These card rooms operate openly, advertise, even hire off duty LEOs as security from time to time. I can not imagine that local and state law enforcement isn't aware of these card rooms. That doesn't mean they are legal, just not under imminent threat of police action (or so folks hope).

Let's not kid ourselves. The State did not intend the leave room for these types of establishments to operate. While Texas is not as hostile to poker as the worst of the states, it certainly is no friend either. The AG has taken a far, far stricter interpretation of the statute in public statements. But no one has been prosecuted using such strict interpretations.

That being said, the enforcement of gambling laws is much more the purview of local law enforcement rather than state level law enforcement. So it is plausible that the local LEOs will choose to ignore them rather than pursue a strict enforcement of the law.

I appreciate that the operators might be honest in their professed hope that their operations are legal. But state and (in some cases) local statutes certainly could be construed to forbid this type of gaming room. I would not assume these games are legal without clear rulings from the court. And should the courts rule in favor of the card rooms, I expect the Legislature would act quickly to amend the code. Texas is no friend to poker.

I encourage current and prospective operators (and property owners leasing space to card rooms) to get quality legal representation. I also encourage card room operators and property owners to limit their at risk investments. I think it is only a matter of time before we get some sort of hostile reaction from some law enforcement organ.

Let's hope for the best, but prepare for something worse.

Dragonfang1 has been banned it looks like.

It's not always appropriate for mods to discuss the reasons for a ban - but in this case, I think it would be valuable to the community to at least give some information in this case since there may be readers here who are interested in playing at his card room, and now we can't be sure if that is safe.

-Do mods have any information suggesting that he is or could be a scammer?
-Was the ban for violation of 2+2's advertising policy (maybe he posted too much information without paying 2+2 like other rooms do)?
-Or was he maybe just trolling some other subforum and the ban has nothing to do with this?
-Something else?

Interesting. Well if he got banned for advertising, then at least delete the link to his website in post #8, else he's getting free permanent advertising.

Has anyone been to the River Card Social Club in San Marcos?

The River in San Marcos occupies what once was my favorite pizza place in San Marcus. It is in a strip mall in a backwater of the city orphaned by the rerouting of the highway. They share space with a bakery, nightclub, eatery and a martial arts studio.

Costs are $20/month membership fees plus $8/hr seat fee. All fees are collected in the entry, no fees are paid at the table but reloading chips are sold there. Best I can read the Texas Criminal Code, it looks unlawful. But a number of similar clubs are open throughout the state and none of them have had legal troubles over gambling. A San Antonio club had legal trouble over their occupancy paperwork which was quickly resolved. The River certainly is not hiding. They have signage and an on-line presence. The city can have no doubt as to what goes on there.

The room looks just like what you would expect - the front door has a couple of guys watching it and the parking lot. The entry handles most cash transactions and is segregated from the card tables. Four tables in a somewhat larger space plus TVs. Only one unisex bathroom, which might prove to be a legal issue for them should the city or state make an issue of it. The playing area can't be seen from the outside.

Outside food is allowed. They offer a tiny assortment of snacks and drinks. Ice and coffee look to be free if they happen to have any when you ask for it.

For anyone who cares - bud jones chips are in play.

I was playing on a weekend night. One full table in play. Rarely more than one table best I could tell from talking with regulars.

The dealer was as good as I expect from casino dealers (which isn't a great statement of competency). Not really as professional as I could have hoped for, he didn't handle side pots well and his change making sometimes left the impression he was shorting the pot (he wasn't, I counted it down to be sure). However the dealer was far better than the ones found at freeroll bar games.

The front office is confused and making it up as they go along. They don't know how to handle common problems that arise. They do not have procedures and are bumbling when it comes to computer techniques. I encourage customers to be vigilant to insure they are getting charged properly. Do not expect a receipt. This is not to say the customers are getting cheated, only to say the front office doesn't know what they are doing.

These rooms are an interesting test in a state that is no friend to poker. I keep expecting the hammer to fall, but it has been over a year and nothing has happened at all.

PS Spreads 1/2 NL hold'em but will spread anything the customers ask for.

OT, but if you are in the Houston area, I frequent a few of the 'underground,' or.. not so legal, poker rooms that I could tell you more about. If interested, PM me. I don't work for any of them, but seeing their structure may assist you in the networking aspect.