What? Which assumptions and which unproven facts?

I'm saying it's my opinion that if someone is educated about and understands social sciences; the study of human society and of individual relationships in and to society, they would see the practicality of a ladies tournament.

What are you saying about ladies tournaments?

I'm curious how Harrah's/Caesar's will (now that they charge 10k for women and 1k for men) decide who's a woman and who isn't. I suppose they'll just use whatever legal ID is provided, but gender isn't quite as simple as what plumbing you have, your self identification of gender, or your hormonal/chemical makeup.

"I'd like to play in the women's event."
"That'll be 10k, ma'am."
"I'm a woman, you insensitive clod."
"Uh, OK."

I'm sure they'll go by whatever is indicated on your state-issued ID... And I'd bet they'll remind their cashiers to look at the ID before quoting the price to enter.

I don't know any other practical way for them to enforce this. It will have the practical effect of making it difficult for Trans women from states that are tough to get ID changed to enter, but I don't see any way around that.

Shauna.

It shouldn't be allowed. It is a joke to allow it. It really is a clear cut issue.

Oh yeah, so clear cut. That's why this thread is empty with no discussion.

This is just like men entering women's bathroom. Is there a law saying you can't enter an opposite sex bathroom? No. So as for poker.

Have you had any personal experience with this? I was in a strip bar one night and one of the patrons (a female) came into the men's bathroom, hiked up her skirt and began pissing in the sink.

Did it bother me? Hell know, well that's not quite true, I thought she could have had the curtesy to wait until I'd finished washing my hands.....

Some women you can't take anywhere.

this

who do they think they are, the golf club at Augusta?

I'm curious to know how you thought this paragraph was a good idea. It doesn't advance your actual point. It sounds sexist. It makes one question your motives for opposing this tournament. And you're saying it in the forum with the most women on 2+2. So how did you justify to yourself putting this in?

and there are surely some women that would be -ev with no top on

and it would have been a much better post without that paragraph, but then I've been guilty of that myself.

This wasn't a subtle point, it's complete nonsense. Making such comments that you admit are sexist is a terrible way to try to prove your point, especially in the forum made for the very sex you were being sexist against. Did you ever consider how your post would be read?

I assumed people would read it with their eyes. As to how they choose to interpret it, that's up to them. I think most people will understand my point. It's called humor, maybe you've heard of it. My particular brand is known as locker room humor.

In this case, I choose to use locker room humor to poke(r) fun at the concept of womens' tournaments. I find the idea and practice appalling given the advanced evolution of our color-blind/gender neutral society. If you advocate a women only tournament then why not advocate girls only schools. After all, the girls might be intimidated in math class by some smart guy.

And don't stop with segregated gender based schools, go ahead and apply the same concept to race based schools and work places why don't you. I thought we've moved forward as a culture but evdiently some women want their cake and eat it to.

There are a lot of women that agree with me on this and have posted their opinion in this forum. To those still mentally crippled by social anxiety and the intimidation of having to compete with men I say, "through away the crutches ladies and stand on your own two feet". You people seem to think that men can't be intimidated by playing in tournaments too. I willingly admit to being nervous as hell the first time I sat down to play a tournament and especially nervous when I played in my first Main Event.

Get over it. It's been my experience that women players are every bit as good as men and don't need the crutch of their own tournament. If it doesn't kill you, it only makes you stronger right?

PS. The thought of me playing a topless tournament is especially scary but I'm willing to fire a shot at if you are.

I'm in

There was nothing wrong with women's colleges back when women were first exploring further education in a very male-dominant education system. Now that times have changed to a society where almost as many women attend colleges as men, women's colleges are almost nonexistant (except for those that exist to promote feminism, I believe).

The race-based schools is a completely unrelated topic- we are not forcing women to only play in women's tournaments the way certain races were forced to be in segregated and inferior schools. It's an option and an encouraging stepping stone for more women to play poker in a very male-dominant players field.

Women are additionally intimidated to play in a male-dominant tournament for reasons unrelated to why anybody (men or women) would be intimidated to play in any large tournament, such as being singled out, mocked, or judged at the table. Some (not all) just need a stepping stone to be comfortable with tournaments in general, helpfully one where they're not singled out, before they try playing in tournaments where they do encounter these gender-specific obstacles.

Not to mention, Ladies tournaments are fun and have completely different atmospheres in general. Like the Seniors tournament, it's just another variation to the game.

Thank you for your post(s) Pokerella - spot on. I am probably older than most of the women posting on here and this thread has begun to make me sad. Good thing that the TWSS forum in general makes the world a happier place.

umm yeah idk where you live but the real USA is not even close to color-blind/gender neutral. Obviously it's getting better but this is pretty wrong. I'll give one pretty quick example was just talking to my one friend and she was saying about how one of the drawbacks of going out in big cities was getting catcalls and lewd comments. Do guys have to deal with that ever? Maybe I'm just ugly but I haven't gotten any of those kinds of comments ever.

Those exist. Google Smith college. Not sure how many more there are but I know people who go there and it's definitely female only.

meh it's not unrelated at all your distinction isn't all that strong guys can't play in the ladies event. If we let whites attend the inferior schools the analogy holds (kind of). Women have their choice of open events and ladies events (which are pretty obviously softer just based on markups offered in the MP) while men only have their choice of open events. Whites are offered the choice of black schools or white schools blacks are offered the choice of black schools only. Obviously the difference is that ladies events are a small % of overall events and the "right" to play a poker tournament is a bit weaker in the eyes of most people than the "right" to be educated.

Anyway idk I see some reasons for them I still think it's pretty ****ty that some female pros would promote ladies events pretending to be trying to help them and welcome them then sell action in the MP and brag about how the ladies events are included as an additional selling point because of how soft it is.

Honestly though it doesn't matter what anyone here thinks, it's a business decision by Harrah's. Obviously they think using their resources to run a ladies event is worth more than using those resources to run another open event. It's pretty clear that it's legal and it's pretty clear that it's been a success as they continue to run the event year after year.

Would anyone care if they ran an event for "first-time WSOP entrants" or some other quasi-plausible criterion that is a proxy for softness but didn't invoke a historical discrimiantion bias? The industry event? Not unless you are a complainsaw/jabroni.

Girls, Girls, Girls! You're complaints and counter arguements are hilarious. You make my point for me.

We are living in such a "progressive" society these days yet you women want to be shackled to the past. Why, just this morning I heard a report that in 4 of 10 households the wife/mother/predominant female, is the bread winner.

In business, company's that are woman/minority owned are given preferred treatment in the bidding process. Most universities bend over backward to accomodate minority students at the expense of more qualified white students. (just ask your president how he got into harvard).

As to cat calls from men - my advice is to stay out of strip bars and you won't have that problem.

I have NEVER witnessed a woman poker player being treated any differently at a table because she was a woman. I've seen some criticized (which I don't approve of regardless of gender) for making some loose calls but I've seen men harassed even more.

Bottom line, there are azzholes everywhere (I'm exhibit A) but that doesn't mean we need to live in a segregated society.

A women only tournament is not that big a deal in the whole scheme of life. What I found repulsive was hearing the women applaud and cheer when a man was eliminated. I personally haven't and wouldn't play in a ladies events but if I did, and I got that treatment went I busted out, I'd treat you so-called "ladies" in the proper fashion.

Perhaps in the spirit of equality, the men should just start jeering and clapping everytime a woman busts out of a co-ed tournament. Evidently that appears to be the proper etiquette as practiced by the fairer sex.

I wouldn't "care" if the WSOP wanted to run such an event, but I also wouldn't see it as a replacement for the ladies' event because I do think that there is something nice, even for experienced female players, of having a tournament where you get to play with other women.

Even though more women are playing the game, I am regularly the only woman at my table (and, sometimes the only woman in the whole tournament), so it was encouraging and fun to go to the Rio on that one day and see an entire ballroom filled with other women. And it is that spirit of comaraderie that would be lost if you replaced the ladies' event with a first-timers tournament.

(Also, somewhat tangentially, I wonder how strong the turnout would be for a newbs only tournament? As a recreational player, I know that my ROI would probably be better in a first timers tournament (unless it was filled w/ 21 yo wizards or something) than in an open field, but when I'm deciding to shell out $ for a WSOP event, part of the reason that I'm doing it is because I want a chance to play with people I've seen on TV and see how my skills match up with the pros, so I'm not sure that I would find the rookie tournament quite as appealing.

The radio told me that the majority of these are single-mother households (though the number being up from 11% in 1960 is still impressive).

"Bend over backwards" sounds like a stretch, and also is unrelated to this talk of women.

Who's calling for a segregated society? All that's being discussed is a single women's only tournament, which you admit is not a big deal. And yet here you are, arguing against it like it's a big deal. You may claim you only really are upset at the cheering at the man busting out, but you made no mention of that in your first post here.

Lol I guess my US history is terrible, because I definitely thought white people were not allowed to be in inferior race-based schools (or race-based anything, for that matter). Plus, why would they want to be attending race based schools- they were strictly worse at the time than white schools were (no?). Thus, not analogous to ladies events, where ladies events are not "inferior" and men voluntarily enter ladies events because they either see ladies events as profitable (attending race-based schools was definitely not beneficial) or they do it for entertainment (I seriously doubt there was anything entertaining about attending inferior schools at the time).

Hey, I didn't add markup to the Ladies events when you bought your share of my package! J/k, agreed though.

How many times do I have to emphasize "stepping stone for women"? It's a fun option for women- "segregated society" implies that the two populations are distinctly separate without choice. Obviously not true for female players.

Fwiw, I was disgusted by it last year in the WSOP Ladies too... it's just giving the male players what they want- attention. Liv Boeree was sitting across the table from me and we both just rolled our eyes every time it happened.