Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

That's What She Said! A place to discuss female specific issues related to poker and other subjects.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-22-2015, 08:15 AM   #1
inmyrav
grinder
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: To the moon, Alice!
Posts: 404
Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

http://justinbonomo.blogspot.com/

Is this experience common? I've not seen any bad treatment of women at a poker table but I may be blind to it?
inmyrav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 08:23 PM   #2
HiFi
Dented ovaries
 
HiFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere on Twitch
Posts: 23,501
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyrav View Post
http://justinbonomo.blogspot.com/



Is this experience common? I've not seen any bad treatment of women at a poker table but I may be blind to it?

He nailed it.

I've been playing live for 10 years. About 6 of those years I was full time and played live frequently (and post Black Friday, exclusively). I have had men do the following to me:

-Touch me uninvited like I'm an exhibit in a ****ing petting zoo (too many times to count)

-When HU on the river facing a bet from me, ask me if they can touch my tits if they fold (twice)

-Purchase alcohol for me without asking even though I don't drink and call me names when I refuse to imbibe (probably about a dozen times)

-Yell to me "get your pussy in the cab!" while I'm waiting for the valet to bring the car (only once thank Christ but it was a "respected" name pro)

-Tell me I'm fat and/or ugly if I win a large pot from them (frequently)

-Call me all kinds of names when I decline to give them my number (maybe 20 times lifetime)

Those are just the ones I can think of right away.

And I don't have it as bad as many other women do because I mostly play off-brand games where the community is small and if someone is acting like a jackass they will be subjected to gargantuan quantities of public ridicule.

It's really difficult to overstate how huge of a problem this is.
HiFi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2015, 10:21 PM   #3
Yenomez
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Posting from my iPhone
Posts: 491
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

I only have seen this once, even as a male I was repulsed.

Girl racking up in cash game after harassment and she never responded and as soon as she gets up and I mean not having taken 2 steps the guy buried his face into the seat she was sitting in (him in the 7 and her in the 6 or something) and deeply inhaled loudly.


I mean I could go on and on about the the ways this makes me cringe. I wouldn't want to play if I was a girl either
Yenomez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2015, 10:29 PM   #4
arobinson11
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Round Rock TX
Posts: 1,306
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

This isn't a poker problem, it's a society problem. I seriously doubt anyone who is committing these acts are on 2+2 or follows bonomo on Twitter. I also don't think anyone with any moral compass would allow any of the above mentioned acts to happen without saying a word.
arobinson11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2015, 01:00 AM   #5
Nash_equilibria
veteran
 
Nash_equilibria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canada Poker Community
Posts: 2,608
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

Quote:
Pro A is patently disgusting. I’ve had two separate girlfriends tell me they had their asses grabbed by this man. Neither girl had ever spoken a single word to him. Both instances took place in the Rio and occurred one year apart from each other. A masseuse I know confirmed this behavior and shared a few similar stories detailing how outrageously gropey he is.

Pro B is well liked. You would be surprised to hear that he was accused of repeated sexual harassment by a female in the poker world while representing his sponsoring site. I’m not at liberty to discuss the specifics of the outcome due to the lawyers involved, but it was not pretty.

Pro C was the one that surprised me most. A female poker player accused him of rape. Upon finding out about this, another female that’s connected in the poker world instantly spoke up saying she too had been raped by Pro C. His sponsorship contract was terminated the very next day.
Any educated guesses on which pros he is talking about?

Last edited by venice10; 11-25-2015 at 01:17 PM. Reason: Removed speculation
Nash_equilibria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2015, 04:46 AM   #6
HiFi
Dented ovaries
 
HiFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere on Twitch
Posts: 23,501
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

Quote:
Originally Posted by arobinson11 View Post
This isn't a poker problem, it's a society problem. I seriously doubt anyone who is committing these acts are on 2+2 or follows bonomo on Twitter. I also don't think anyone with any moral compass would allow any of the above mentioned acts to happen without saying a word.

Obviously poker rooms aren't the only places these things happen but it's pretty bad there. I feel much safer, say, in the grocery store. That's not an accident.

Also people who have some degree of morality often have no spine and don't say anything.
HiFi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2015, 04:47 AM   #7
HiFi
Dented ovaries
 
HiFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere on Twitch
Posts: 23,501
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash_equilibria View Post
Any educated guesses on which pros he is talking about?

I don't see how any good could possibly come of speculating on this.

Last edited by venice10; 11-25-2015 at 01:17 PM. Reason: Removed speculation
HiFi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2015, 01:18 PM   #8
venice10
Referee
 
venice10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nowhere special
Posts: 21,374
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFi View Post
I don't see how any good could possibly come of speculating on this.
I agree. This isn't the place to speculate on a serious matter like this.
venice10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2015, 03:57 PM   #9
GamblinRick
centurion
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 151
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

Speculation? I agree. However, somebody here knows who this is and his name needs to be brought forward. Much like the Cosby incidents, if this guy is allowed to remain in hiding, there may be other victims. We need to out this scumbag immediately.

Here's a great article by Lee Davy who sums it up nicely. http://calvinayre.com/2015/11/25/pok...urce=hootsuite
GamblinRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2015, 10:47 PM   #10
ITT666
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,636
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

It's not like there is only one rapist in the entire poker community, even in the known 'pro' community it's highly unlikely only one guy has ever committed rape.

Not defending or condoning his actions whoever he is, but that article and some of the replies in this thread sound like it's this one guy and if you find him and he goes to jail never again will any woman feel unsafe at the poker table.
ITT666 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2015, 03:23 AM   #11
meanboyfriend
centurion
 
meanboyfriend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 139
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

I've been playing live poker for 12 years and I don't recall a high amount of women being abused. If anything, I'd say it's less to be honest. I've been treated like **** quite a bit. I've seen men be cruel to men a lot. That's a reason why I sometimes decide to stay home and play poker instead because you can easily tune out the a-holes online.
meanboyfriend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2015, 05:13 PM   #12
punkass
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
punkass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hip deep in pie
Posts: 10,863
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

Though it's a societal issue, these lowlife scums seem to think it's at least somewhat acceptable in a gambling setting, where it seems old-school logic of poker being a "man's game" reigns in their heads. Much like a high roller thinks being an ass is acceptable behavior in the pits, for some reason, bigoted and sexist guys seem to think it's ok to display these types of acts in the poker room.

When we see these types of things (and by we, I mean guys), we need to step up and say something. Not because we're to become "knights to save the girl", but because these acts are unacceptable on behalf of everyone. And people need to know this is not acceptable, by far. Embarrass the hell out of these guys. The game does not need them.
punkass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2015, 06:01 AM   #13
Matt Crocker
old hand
 
Matt Crocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: What ARE birds? We just don't know.
Posts: 1,333
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

Quote:
Originally Posted by arobinson11 View Post
This isn't a poker problem, it's a society problem. I seriously doubt anyone who is committing these acts are on 2+2 or follows bonomo on Twitter. I also don't think anyone with any moral compass would allow any of the above mentioned acts to happen without saying a word.
Not everyone with a moral compass has the guts to openly confront this behaviour. I do, but that's because I'm a massive gobsh*te
Matt Crocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2015, 11:27 AM   #14
JimJonesIsMyGod
banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 21
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

This is how men are when they aren't forced to conform to social norms. In a male dominated social setting men will be far looser and more crude than they are otherwise. They can get away with it more and will toss aside manners that are normal and expected in other social settings. The makeup of the general poker population doesn't help either (their morals, the # of sex offenders that choose to play poker because they can't get a normal job, etc).
JimJonesIsMyGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2015, 01:12 PM   #15
LektorAJ
Pooh-Bah
 
LektorAJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: none
Posts: 5,594
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

I don't have much to say except that it seems people are conflating two different things.

Sometimes "in poker" means top, full-time players who know each other playing in big tournaments. Maybe there is a specific problem with some people in that community at the moment.

In other cases, people are talking about poker rooms in general, IMHO what goes down in a poker room in Pittsburgh or London or Los Angeles or Kiev depends on more on the culture of the place its located rather than some general "poker" culture being transmitted from place to place. The behaviour may also be misogynist there, but it's a Pittsburgh or London or Los Angeles or Kiev problem rather than a "poker" problem and you need to fight it city by city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFi View Post
Obviously poker rooms aren't the only places these things happen but it's pretty bad there. I feel much safer, say, in the grocery store. That's not an accident.
How does a poker room compare to another entertainment venue like a bar or a nightclub though?
LektorAJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 07:09 AM   #16
skydiver8
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 13,000 ft AGL
Posts: 450
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

Honestly, the big obvious abusive things that people talk about aren't all that common. It's the subtle, little things that pervade every aspect of our interactions with many male players that cause more harm.

I don't really know how to describe what I mean other than to give some personal examples of both. First, a disclaimer. I am NOT a typical "girl". I spent 10 years in the military, I skydive, I play poker, I tend to have more guy friends, and i'm definitely a "tomboy." the overt things don't offend me at all. In fact, they tend to amuse me.

For example, just last night I got called a douchebag and told that I "looked like the type of person who would eat a penis out of a guy's crap." (he didn't really say "crap" but there's a profanity filter here) See, that sort of stuff coming from a drunk guy who is donating half his bankroll to me is just funny. I'm enough of a poker player to never say anything to rock that boat, and I even tried to shush the dude at the table who stood up for me. But I am atypical, and I'm sure you could see how a normal gal who might be newer to the game or not used to being around guys all the time might take that.

What DOES bug me is when two guys at the other end of the table talk about me like I can't hear. Or how older men coddle me by soft playing. Or how guys interrupt me when I talk. Or when some dude verbally abuses the girlfriend who is patiently sitting behind him while he plays. Or assume that because I'm the only female employee in the poker room on swing shift, that they can just give me their cocktail order.

These little things are not things that are easily changed, because they are just part of our culture...the way we are taught to think. Most men don't even realize that they're doing these things, or they don't realize how it affects the women around them. Heck, most women probably don't even realize it. They just don't feel comfortable, and they might even be sure why.

Honestly, I'm not even sure there's a way to fix it. For the overt things, guys need to tone it down...but women need to toughen up a bit too. For the subtle things, it would take a change in culture, or in upbringing. That's nearly impossible.
skydiver8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 11:11 AM   #17
HiFi
Dented ovaries
 
HiFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere on Twitch
Posts: 23,501
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

LektorAJ,

I very rarely go to bars and haven't been to a club in many years so my experiences with those venues are limited but from what I've personally observed, they can either be tons better or tons worse than the average poker room.
HiFi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 06:15 PM   #18
Drrr.Gonzo
old hand
 
Drrr.Gonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,561
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

Are names ever going to be released? By these guys being allowed to remain anonymous they will continue to behave the same way especially if something as serious as rape was involved.

If these are players considered to be well liked then there are a lot of unsuspecting women that probably associate with said players today and dont know the danger they could be in. As far as I know I dont believe there are legal ramification for calling out a alledge rapist, so Im not sure why the secrecy. Unless these stories have a high chance of fabrication, or partial truths became whole to justin and he chose not to speak further, or a settlement was reached. Either way further explanation is needed a month already has passed.
Drrr.Gonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 06:26 PM   #19
Drrr.Gonzo
old hand
 
Drrr.Gonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,561
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

Quote:
Originally Posted by skydiver8 View Post
Honestly, the big obvious abusive things that people talk about aren't all that common. It's the subtle, little things that pervade every aspect of our interactions with many male players that cause more harm.

I don't really know how to describe what I mean other than to give some personal examples of both. First, a disclaimer. I am NOT a typical "girl". I spent 10 years in the military, I skydive, I play poker, I tend to have more guy friends, and i'm definitely a "tomboy." the overt things don't offend me at all. In fact, they tend to amuse me.

For example, just last night I got called a douchebag and told that I "looked like the type of person who would eat a penis out of a guy's crap." (he didn't really say "crap" but there's a profanity filter here) See, that sort of stuff coming from a drunk guy who is donating half his bankroll to me is just funny. I'm enough of a poker player to never say anything to rock that boat, and I even tried to shush the dude at the table who stood up for me. But I am atypical, and I'm sure you could see how a normal gal who might be newer to the game or not used to being around guys all the time might take that.

What DOES bug me is when two guys at the other end of the table talk about me like I can't hear. Or how older men coddle me by soft playing. Or how guys interrupt me when I talk. Or when some dude verbally abuses the girlfriend who is patiently sitting behind him while he plays. Or assume that because I'm the only female employee in the poker room on swing shift, that they can just give me their cocktail order.

These little things are not things that are easily changed, because they are just part of our culture...the way we are taught to think. Most men don't even realize that they're doing these things, or they don't realize how it affects the women around them. Heck, most women probably don't even realize it. They just don't feel comfortable, and they might even be sure why.

Honestly, I'm not even sure there's a way to fix it. For the overt things, guys need to tone it down...but women need to toughen up a bit too. For the subtle things, it would take a change in culture, or in upbringing. That's nearly impossible.
Wow that crap story is insane iv never heard such a thing nor could have i imagined it either. Your old man coddling story is a great point its similar to have people call me brother because im black. Some idiocy is so ingrained culture you let things slide cause if not you would be in shouting matches every second of everyday.
Drrr.Gonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2015, 09:46 AM   #20
LektorAJ
Pooh-Bah
 
LektorAJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: none
Posts: 5,594
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFi View Post
LektorAJ,

I very rarely go to bars and haven't been to a club in many years so my experiences with those venues are limited but from what I've personally observed, they can either be tons better or tons worse than the average poker room.
Well if poker rooms are at roughly the same average level as other entertainment venues where people are expected to drink and interact then it suggests then it's a people problem rather than poker problem ("it" meaning the wider problem of behaviour in poker rooms rather than the specific predators in the travelling/elite poker world).
LektorAJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 07:05 PM   #21
RunninMan5K
old hand
 
RunninMan5K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,491
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

What if men were treated the same way, would it be an issue then? Nope, likely not, it is because there are less of them. I hear all about these comments bothering people they get and we all get comments and its just BS. I got picked on as a kid and at the table too: if you don't like it, call the floor, have them deal with it, and go up the chain...otherwise, I think its a non-issue. However, if someone is being touched, different story, that criminal activity, but verbal things are not unless they are threats. Period.
RunninMan5K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2016, 12:25 AM   #22
illiterat
adept
 
illiterat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 965
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunninMan5K View Post
What if men were treated the same way [...] I got picked on as a kid and at the table too: if you don't like it, call the floor, have them deal with it, and go up the chain...otherwise, I think its a non-issue.
http://blog.ian.gent/2013/10/the-pet...attack-on.html
illiterat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 01:12 PM   #23
Crazy Joe Davola
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,333
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

Nothing to add except that Bonomo writes like a seventh grade kid.
Crazy Joe Davola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2016, 02:20 AM   #24
Hardball47
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: BET FLOP
Posts: 12,937
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

While all of this obviously is terrible, the poker room isn't where you'd expect the moral paragons of society to hang out. It goes without saying that you'll find a higher percentage of society's scumbags and degenerates at a gambling establishment that you would at, say, the supermarket.

Man or woman, however, we all have to develop thicker skin when playing poker.
Hardball47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2016, 08:23 PM   #25
restorativejustice
veteran
 
restorativejustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,374
Re: Justin Bonomo on bad treatment of women at pokers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardball47 View Post
While all of this obviously is terrible, the poker room isn't where you'd expect the moral paragons of society to hang out. It goes without saying that you'll find a higher percentage of society's scumbags and degenerates at a gambling establishment that you would at, say, the supermarket.

Man or woman, however, we all have to develop thicker skin when playing poker.
+1
These are first-world problems, if that.

When I consider the mistreatment of women, my foremost concern is for those in the Middle East being sold as slaves or stoned to death or raped as a prizes of war or forced to wear a canvas bag over their bodies because of a religion's dominance and not those who get unsolicited drinks bought for them in poker rooms or are called names no worse than what men call each other.

To the woman so affected short of physical contact I would say, consider the setting and adjust your sensibilities accordingly.
restorativejustice is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online