This is an issue that's honestly bothered for some time. While the two major sites obviously market in the United States, there seems to be no concerted effort to market TO women. They include women in the commercials, but that's not really enough, IMO. Showing that there are women poker players is not the same as a real marketing campaign designed to make poker/online poker appealing to women, so that they would want to try it for themselves.

If you suppose that females are a relatively untapped market in the US, then it seems as if both major sites are making almost no effort to actually try to recruit new female players. I myself emailed PS to offer ideas I've had about this, but the person who handles such things was on vacation at the time and never got back to me after she returned. Is there no interest in recruiting women? Is the assumption that not enough women would want to play, ergo there's no need for a female specific marketing campaign?

Just wondering if anyone else has thoughts/opinions on the issue. Should the sites attempt to specifically recruit women? Have they made any effort to do so?

i guess they could offer some tables with hearts and flowers in the background, all in pink and purple

Pretty sure that's not at all what I'm talking about and that you are being condescending for no real reason.

I'm not talking about decorating poker tables, I'm talking about the apparent lack of either site to market poker specifically to women, in order to make it more attractive to women, so that more new players join the game.

What specific examples of marketing do you have in mind?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...z-read-990776/

Specifically, I think that since their primary form of marketing in the US appears to be television, then if they want to attract women they should run a television ad campaign specifically targeting women.

Think about the current PS and FT ads. They often emphasize the excitement and adversarial nature of poker, or hype how many "winners" they have on their site. Now, I'm not saying that this in and of itself wouldn't appeal to some women, but it's not designed specifically to do so, either.

And what channels do these ads run on? Obviously they usually run during a poker broadcast; otherwise they run primarily, AFAIK, on ESPN.

I'm not trying to stereotype women, but even basic demographic research shows that most ESPN viewers are male, and advertising your sites during a poker show is really only going to get the already casual poker fan.

So marketing needs to target specific parts of the game that appeal to women (camradarie, maybe? the social aspect? the inherent equality of the game?), and actually air such ads during general programming.

For all I know they have such a campaign in the works. Or maybe everything is being put on hold because of the current uncertainly of the US market. All I do know is that in all the ads I've seen, I've never once thought, "Wow, that should attract some new female players to the game."

Pokerstars, like most businesses, is going to focus their advertising at the biggest pool of potential new customers. That pool is young men between the age of 18 and 25. Women remain a small % of people interested in poker at that age group. Therefore, it should be a surprise that the vast majority of advertising is going to be targeted at that demographic. Keep in mind it is pretty rare to see a PS commercial on anything other than a poker show, which is shown on sports channels, which are designed to appeal to young men, etc.

Their efforts towards women are fairly small, but they make some sort of effort. There's a women's section on the website. They run women only events, have a poker league and offer women money for referring other women to Pokerstars.

Compared to FTP, this is quite a bit. Given FTP's treatment of their one original female front person, it shouldn't be a shock they make no apparent effort attract women.

At the same time, both sites' effort to attract my demographic is

Yes, but unless you know to look for either of these things I'm not sure you would know this. And they do what now if you refer other women?

And women are a smaller demographic - but much more untapped at this point?

Maybe it's just honestly not a priority for them. If it's not I guess that's their business decision, but I wonder how many females are out there who would be interested if they only knew.

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/prom...en/promotions/

I'm not sure and probably can't get a response due to some genetic issues . I suspect it will be similar to what FTP does, where you pick up some bonuses as your friend deposits and plays for a while.

I think venice is right in that they'll just target to whoever presents the biggest $$$ pool, and for whatever reason women don't really associate poker with something they want to do so although there might be a big pool of women out there that are untapped it's still not worth the effort or the money from stars/ftp to advertise specifically towards them.

So then it seems like the general consensus would be that yes, poker isn't marketed much to women, but it probably won't change because of the general belief that there wouldn't be enough women interested to really market too.

I'm not sure if I agree with that, although I can see the logic. I think poker would appeal a great deal to some women. But not sure how the potential market could ever be fully determined.

I think it's just odd that neither major site has even tried yet. The Home Game release on PS seemed like the perfect opportunity too. Learn to play with your friends at your own limits and speed! No strangers at the table!

IDK. Maybe they just expect that women who would like poker will find it on their own, or through the men in their lives, or by stumbling on a WSOP broadcast.

I think you are bringing up a very interesting point...unfortunately, I think any sort of target marketing campaign by gambling entities is a bad idea...and should not be considered good business ethics.

Women who enjoy poker will play poker..they don't need to be targeted in marketing.

Ok, let's have a look at a piece of marketing that came to mind when I saw the thread title: http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/prom...ean-adventure/

Here's stars first piece of intro copy for this promotion:

Is it a patronising assumption that even the women who have bothered to read this article care more about spas and pampering than poker? Or, is it just a fairly accurate assessment that reflects the best way to get women involved in this event?

In my opinion the marketing doesn't quite tally with the $1k buy in.

Yeah it is patronizing. I'm a pretty big chauvinist myself (promise I wont be posting here more than once in a blue moon), and am surprised everytime by the way pokerstars advertises to women. But maybe they know better than I do.
How so? I'm honestly not sure if you mean that a $1k buy in is too high for casual players, or that it's low for someone who spends all the money to go to PCA. Because both of these things are true. It's the perfect buyin amount I think. Lower and it's hard to take the event seriously, higher and it won't get many runners.

i noticed women only tournies and women leagues on PS.

I think women would be more attracted to poker if they considered it a viable source of income, and not just gambling, especially since those that can play online can "work at home" which is very appealing to moms.

i think a major reason why there are so many female poker pros signed is to try to help attract more female players to the game. As far as marketing poker to women, the reason why all the poker ads are on male majority viewership programs is because of the concern that the advertisements will not bring in many players if advertised on something like gossip girl or America's next top model. Advertising on shows is not cheap and you want to be able to target the audience that is most likely to play poker and the fact is a lot more men play poker than women do.

I agree with you pezbaby but the problem is that almost all people dont really see poker as a viable source of income and it isnt for the majority of people as well. Most moms would probably be considering how much money that they could lose rather than the amount of money they could earn.

I think that would work, but then again they never in the past have advertised that you can make a living palying poker. Thats a little misleading since like 99% of all poker players are losers, and probably most of those people consider it just another form of gambling

A place to start could be some sort of sign up bonus if you invite your wife/girlfriend. Or another special inventive (More freerolls, and advertisements about those freerolls)

Awesome, bumpage after four months!

BF obviously kinda put a damper on things (at least for the US market), the amount of poker advertising I've seen has diminished substantially since then, so highly doubtful any of the sites would run anything in the US market targeted specifically for women.

I still believe, however, that one of the sites should do a major female oriented marketing push. No one really knows for sure how much of a potential female boom there is out there until they actively try to reel women into the game. Having endorsed female pros is definitely a good step, but again, since most poker advertising I saw (again, in the US) was run during poker programming, anyone watching it is probably already at least a casual fan.

I thought about this again while watching the Women's World Cup this weekend (USA! USA!). I think this would have been an optimal venue for a major poker site to run a female oriented advertisement, maybe highlighting the inherent equality in the game. There are plenty of competitive women out there, plenty that played sports at least in grade school or high school or college and remember how much fun it could be to compete. Would seem to be an optimal opportunity for the first site that figures that out and designs such a campaign. If the campaign doesn't result in decent numbers after a few months, it's not like they couldn't scrap it later, but it seems to me like no one has yet even seriously tried.

I think targetting women's athletes is a good idea. I'm guessing that there were surveys done (usually are always conducted before spending millions on advertising) and there just wasnt enough female interest to justify running a major advertising campaign for it.

Trying out a campaign that doesnt work after a few months and being scrapped would also probably result in a marketing director being fired or at least put on thin ice.

We're very slowly getting there. There are plenty of casinos that have figured out the "Girl's Night Out" hotel package and the Ladies Tournament draw. There are local commercials with groups of girls getting into the car and sharing a row of seats (albeit the three card poker table or blackjack) with all the casino lights and bells sparkling behind them. At least they have real cards in their hands.

The concern I have is that they are still featuring nightlife, shopping, food and spa as the reasons women want to come--- not playing. My only exception, BINGO is featured as a female draw to play game in the casino.

I DO think that having female players as featured in commercials does benefit bringing women to the card rooms. The poker magazines, even women's poker magazines, are dying for legit advertisers with a female POV.

Undeniably true - featuring women professionals in commercials, even if the ad isn't geared towards recruiting new female players, sends the unspoken message that women can play, and dominate, too. Which is certainly better than having nothing but male players in their ads.

I'm not familiar at all with ads in poker magazines, but if they are anything like the TV ads I saw then, again, there was nothing aimed specifically at women.

IDK if I like the "women's night out" gimmick for luring women into poker. Poker isn't the same as other casino games - there's a great deal of skill and strategy involved, and someone looking to just get drunk, have fun, and gamble is probably going going to gravitate more towards table games like BJ or roulette.

The Girls Night Out does NOT lure women into poker. It is simply a marketing campaign that does two good things:

1. Gets women to see the casino as a destination that they can go to for fun on their own or with their friends. It is important for a woman to even have the mindset that if given a choice of activities, going to the casino (even alone) is an option.

2. The advertisers put playing cards in the hands of the ladies. This is good, as it shows them playing table games and not just bingo, slots, and dancing. If women start putting cards in their hands, they will venture out into other poker games, and then the card room isn't such a big leap.

Yes, I am being very generous in the spoon-feeding of women into the poker room. GNO is slowly trying to get women to come in and try something new. That is a noted, small indirect benefit. Better than nothing.

I think it comes down to discretionary income. I know a lot of people here have a viewpoint that is a bit warped because they make a living playing poker. The fact is that 99% of people, men or women, lose money playing poker (infact men are probably more likely to lose but it is a small effect). And so, everyone here knows female (and male) players that win money at poker (or atleast break even), but does anyone know female players that lose money playing poker? Because sites aren't even really trying to target winners.

See, the reason is, the biggest moneymaker for the sites aren't even like huge whales, or good regulars, or SNE-nits with a million in rake or whatever; the main cash cow at the base of the pyramid that props up the entire poker economy are the "$50 a week" players that deposit from $50 to $300, (once in a blue moon higher than that) every week or so and blow it on small stakes games. They are like the middle-aged slot players of the live casino industry.

When it comes down to that, pokerstars just tries to target people via advertising (men or women) with enough money to blow $ every week on poker. Just because there are no ads specifically targeted at women isn't really relevant, in the end cash is king and pokerstars seems like a smart company that would push more to women if it would make them more money.

At the same time, pokerstars does make a token effort to try to draw women, but they use only a very low amount of the advertising budget for the aforementioned reason. However, I think female play is still increasing because of other factors.

Anyways so my point is, when you say you want more women to play, what do you mean? Do you mean you want more female players that play for a living, or just "more female players"? (Since 99% of any players that play are not winning players basically). And if the latter, why? (For the record: I would like more females to play poker, and especially more to play poker for a living)

o rly?

Yea, I mean I get what AWice is saying, but it's prob not exactly 99%, more like somewhere between 90-95%?