Tilt Control and Mental Poker Improvement Thread

[ChicagoRy]

One of the biggest downfalls of players is the flaws in their mental approach to the game. Whether it is something negative going on in your personal life, burnout or simply not handling a bad run of cards well, this can be the thread to talk about it and work things out.

Below is a list of free articles and videos to get us started. Post about your own tilt troubles, solutions or anything else. I'll talk to the authors of these resources and others that discuss the mental game regularly and see if they can contribute to this thread.



Nicole "SGT RJ" is finishing up her dissertation for her ph.d and has a masters in counseling psych. She moderates the notoriously difficult News, Views and Gossip forum here on 2p2 and offers life coaching lessons. She has just started up a blog to talk about issues of the mind that players have in poker. You can visit her blog here.



A 5 minute cooldown video to help detilt the tilted poker player.

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A 40 minute video about formulating goals and increasing motivation.

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30 minute video talking about how to recognize and deal with negative emotions in poker and in life.

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Jared Tendler is a top mental poker coach and author of The Mental Game. You can read all about his book in his 2p2 Commercial Marketplace Thread.



Jared Tendler discusses game selection (specifically playing regs) in hu poker.

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Jared talks about fitness in poker.

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Jared talks about the differences between short term and long term success from poker players.

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Jared talks about balancing work and personal time.

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Jared talks about concentration and focus at the tables.

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Jared talks about chasing losses.

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Jared responds to a Cog Dis question about the path to improvement and taking a step back after addressing mental leaks.

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Jared answers a question about a user having comfort issues with hyper turbos.

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HokieGreg, as most of you know, is a top heads up sng regular. He wrote this excellent article last year, titled Poker is a Marathon, Not a Sprint.

Here is a HokieGreg interview with Jared Tendler on Jared's Quadjacks Radio Show.

[SGT RJ]

I'm happy to answer any questions you might have in general about improving your mental game; setting goals, avoiding tilt, staying focused, you name it. If there's a good topic or example from some of the questions I may use them to provide more detailed answers or analysis in a blog post or future video.

Plugging mental leaks, for a lot of players, takes a back seat to improving the more technical aspects of their game, and I think both are equally important for players who want to get the most out of their poker game.

[IcarusJam]

The one thing that I've been working on the past week (and slightly improving at day by day) is my mental endurance. I struggle with sitting and playing a session after I play for about an hour to an hour and a half. I usually get distracted or feel very slight fatigue and use that as a scapegoat to not play. To combat this I am putting in longer sessions to increase endurance and trying to schedule my sessions so that I can get the volume I want.

What else can I do to keep improving my endurance and strengthen my willpower towards completing more and more 1-1.5 hour sessions per day?

[SGT RJ]

Well, that's actually two separate questions: improving endurance and improving motivation/willpower.

The good news is you've pretty much already answered the improving endurance question for yourself - progressively longer sessions. A lot of people, particularly in this day in age where we have so many potential distractions with the omni-prescence of multi-media, have to build up a tolerance for prolonged concentration and mental activity. Think of it like running - the first time you try to run a 400m at a full sprint, you are going to hit the wall about half-way around and wheeze your way to the finish, ready to fall over and convinced it's impossible. With a few weeks of training, you'll be able to run that far without difficulty, and then can extend out even further.

Schedule small mini-breaks (the tournament sync breaks on Stars are ideal for this), and do something mentally cleansing during those breaks - either a short, intense work-out, or something relaxing and decompressing like a relaxation or meditation technique. They both work to help clear your mind, so that you feel rejuvenated when the games start back up. Obviously if you play cash you can just sit out when you need that break.

Also, don't assume that just because some other player talks about playing 12, 18, 24+ hour sessions that this is the key to success. Some people find they simply can't concentrate for that long and still play their A game. If that's the case with you, it's not a short coming, and you can adapt your game to your own upper limits of your endurance thresh hold.

Maintaining motivation can be more tricky, since what saps motivation is often unique to each person. In general, however, it's often helpful to constantly remind yourself why you are putting in all this work in the first place. Do you enjoy the game? Take a few moments periodically during your sessions to remind yourself of what and why you love poker. Are you trying to improve to a certain win rate? Break down your larger long term goals into shorter, easier to achieve goals, so that you'll be able to see your own improvement and feel a sense of pride in what you have achieved. That's much more motivating than always looking ahead at what still needs to be done. If fatigue is a factor, take that break. And if you find yourself making excuses not to play, look into instituting rewards for overcoming that fatigue (and punishments for failure to meet your own goals). Something as simple as grabbing your favorite meal if and only if you complete X goal can be enough to keep some people motivating; others find it motivating to avoid certain things, like having to pay a friend X amount of money if they fail to meet certain goals.

If there's something specific about how and why you feel your motivation is lacking, I can maybe go into greater details, but what motivates player X is often only minimally motivating for player Y, and is actually demotivating for player Z, so that answer is a little more generic.

[newluck]

Good collection of material, ty

[NittyDonk]

I have this type of player that induces tilt on me like no other.

It´s the ultra floater type. When my run sucks and I simply can´t barrel him off a hand it tends to induce me tilt, and in my bad days and it simply makes me very very angry and I can´t help but tilt.

I´ve read Jared´s book already, but can´t quite pinpoint why this type of player annoys me so much, don´t for what reason exactly this player tilts me so much.

[JayA]

Originally Posted by SGT RJ

Well, that's actually two separate questions: improving endurance and improving motivation/willpower.

The good news is you've pretty much already answered the improving endurance question for yourself - progressively longer sessions. A lot of people, particularly in this day in age where we have so many potential distractions with the omni-prescence of multi-media, have to build up a tolerance for prolonged concentration and mental activity. Think of it like running - the first time you try to run a 400m at a full sprint, you are going to hit the wall about half-way around and wheeze your way to the finish, ready to fall over and convinced it's impossible. With a few weeks of training, you'll be able to run that far without difficulty, and then can extend out even further.

Schedule small mini-breaks (the tournament sync breaks on Stars are ideal for this), and do something mentally cleansing during those breaks - either a short, intense work-out, or something relaxing and decompressing like a relaxation or meditation technique. They both work to help clear your mind, so that you feel rejuvenated when the games start back up. Obviously if you play cash you can just sit out when you need that break.

Also, don't assume that just because some other player talks about playing 12, 18, 24+ hour sessions that this is the key to success. Some people find they simply can't concentrate for that long and still play their A game. If that's the case with you, it's not a short coming, and you can adapt your game to your own upper limits of your endurance thresh hold.

Maintaining motivation can be more tricky, since what saps motivation is often unique to each person. In general, however, it's often helpful to constantly remind yourself why you are putting in all this work in the first place. Do you enjoy the game? Take a few moments periodically during your sessions to remind yourself of what and why you love poker. Are you trying to improve to a certain win rate? Break down your larger long term goals into shorter, easier to achieve goals, so that you'll be able to see your own improvement and feel a sense of pride in what you have achieved. That's much more motivating than always looking ahead at what still needs to be done. If fatigue is a factor, take that break. And if you find yourself making excuses not to play, look into instituting rewards for overcoming that fatigue (and punishments for failure to meet your own goals). Something as simple as grabbing your favorite meal if and only if you complete X goal can be enough to keep some people motivating; others find it motivating to avoid certain things, like having to pay a friend X amount of money if they fail to meet certain goals.

If there's something specific about how and why you feel your motivation is lacking, I can maybe go into greater details, but what motivates player X is often only minimally motivating for player Y, and is actually demotivating for player Z, so that answer is a little more generic.

This is such a good post, thank you. I ran the 400m dash in high school (brag, beat: my college didn't have men's track), and this analogy fits perfectly. My question is more on motivation though. I have reasons to be motivated (success, outplaying and out-thinking others, money), but sometimes I still don't feel the pressure to play. I think it comes from a background of procrastination. I've made strides in this area, but I feel as if I'm still behind the ball when it comes down to it. I remember back on Stars, I played an absurd amount of games in a 9 day span so I could hit a certain VIP level, but I had to do that because I waited until the last minute to do so. I'm still trying to figure out how to keep that constant pressure on myself. I really like your idea of reminding myself why I play this game. Any other tidbits?

Edit: I've also read Jared's book, if that gives you something to go off of.

[Torg0th]

Thanks a lot for putting all of this together!

To JayA: TOMORROW IS A FANTASY!
Cheesy as that may sound, I used to procrastinate like hell and since I've read that line in Jared's book, i'm much much better at not doing it. I just remind myself of that line

[JayA]

Originally Posted by Torg0th

Thanks a lot for putting all of this together!

To JayA: TOMORROW IS A FANTASY!
Cheesy as that may sound, I used to procrastinate like hell and since I've read that line in Jared's book, i'm much much better at not doing it. I just remind myself of that line

So true, haha. I completely forgot about that line somehow. It was my mantra during my last semester in college just a few months ago. Thank you for that reminder

[bunzablood]

I play better and more focused vs. regs as opposed to fish. Against some of the very best at w/e stake, I am able to beat them and sometimes hands down. However, fish godmoding me gets me on monkey tilt sometimes and I spiral out of control, fracturing my hand (twice!) or cratering wall, breaking so many things (tabletop, monitor, keyboard, mouse, fan, coffee stand etc.), stressing myself out. It doesn't affect my game that much b/c I have good discipline to walk away before too much monetary damage is done, but the stress of monkey tilt is not good for me I think! How can I approach losing repeatedly to a bad player? This is one area I need a lot of help in.

Off topic, mods please remove if this is sensitive mat'l: I remember you from somewhere. Didn't you mention somewhere in a thread that you are gay? true, false, none of my business?

[Xereles]

Is jealousy/envy an all around bad motivator longterm or can it work for some? I don't think it's good for the mindset but at the same time it can help me to grind a lot, still I am trying to move away from it entirely(hardly scoping people etc, caring more about what I have/can get than what others have that I want). Still, feelings like that carried me from 19-20 and it's still my worst negative emotion but I think it's helped me get in a lot of volume before. Maybe I just have the terms mixed up, it's way more of a I want to beat that guy/be better than that guy than a "why does he have money? I should have it" or "so unfair" feeling.

[Sol Reader]

It's really easy to underestimate the significance of mindset in poker. I think my bad approach towards poker has easily cost me several times my current networth/bankroll over my career, making stupid decisions, being affected by bad mentality and negative thoughts. I used to think I didn't tilt much, because only a weakling would be affected by things like emotions mirite?

Yeah, admitting to myself I have mindset problems has been one of the bigger steps I've made in poker. I only hope I can make good of it. I'm sure there are people who are naturally resistant, but I suggest anyone else who don't see the big deal in it to have a look and check if they really have no leaks in this regard. It can be costing you a lot of EV.

[SGT RJ]

Some great questions so far.

I also want to include the disclaimer that Jared and I may have different counseling styles/backgrounds, so there are spots in which our advice may look contradictory. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - psych research routinely shows that different people get better results from different types of therapy - so if you're already doing something that works for you, don't believe for a second that you should try something else just because you see a contradictory suggestion someplace else. There are many different paths to the same goal, and I have nothing but respect for Jared and his skills.

Originally Posted by NittyDonk

I have this type of player that induces tilt on me like no other.

It´s the ultra floater type. When my run sucks and I simply can´t barrel him off a hand it tends to induce me tilt, and in my bad days and it simply makes me very very angry and I can´t help but tilt.

I´ve read Jared´s book already, but can´t quite pinpoint why this type of player annoys me so much, don´t for what reason exactly this player tilts me so much.

Ultimately, I don't believe it's necessary to unpack why this type of person irritates you so much. In fact, in some situations, looking for the why simply adds to the frustration - it could just be something as simple as an underlying belief that people should try to improve themselves, and someone who plays a fishy style for that long clearly isn't "trying". In any event, your situation is ideal for a thought insertion technique to neutralize the tilt.

Put together a series of hands that typify this situation, and throw them on a replayer and watch them. As you are watching them, record your thoughts verbatim (written or audio). It doesn't matter how stupid or trivial you think the thoughts are at the time - RECORD THEM ALL! I cannot stress this enough, just monitor your thoughts and get them all out so you can analyze them.

It may take a couple of attempts, since people tend to be self-conscious about monitoring and recording their thoughts, but it's pretty important that you do this outside of the actual game, since in game you'll have other things that need your attention.

Once you have your thoughts out for analysis, go through them and discard obvious extraneous thoughts ("I like cheese"), and center in on the villain related thoughts. I suspect a lot of your thoughts focus on how frustrating these villain are, how stupid, how dumb, how bad!

You can tailor this last part to your specific thoughts, but now write out new, corrected thoughts that specifically target the maladaptive, frustrating thoughts. Instead of "OMG this player is bad, and I just know he's going to suck out!", you counter that with "I make money when players are bad. I can't control how the hand plays out, but the X amount of times he doesn't hit his draw I'm going to make a lot of money from this type of player."

Have these "new thoughts" ready and written out so you can reference them while you play. Then when you find yourself in a spot against this type of villain, start repeating them - out loud at first, then internally as you get more comfortable with them.

Originally Posted by JayA

This is such a good post, thank you. I ran the 400m dash in high school (brag, beat: my college didn't have men's track), and this analogy fits perfectly. My question is more on motivation though. I have reasons to be motivated (success, outplaying and out-thinking others, money), but sometimes I still don't feel the pressure to play. I think it comes from a background of procrastination. I've made strides in this area, but I feel as if I'm still behind the ball when it comes down to it. I remember back on Stars, I played an absurd amount of games in a 9 day span so I could hit a certain VIP level, but I had to do that because I waited until the last minute to do so. I'm still trying to figure out how to keep that constant pressure on myself. I really like your idea of reminding myself why I play this game. Any other tidbits?

Edit: I've also read Jared's book, if that gives you something to go off of.

LOL, yeah, I also ran track in HS, but was a shot putter, so the few times they put me in the 400 I was like OMG noooooooo!

The procrastination mindset is a tough one to overcome, because you ultimately know you can do it "later". It's something I struggle with to some degree as well.

Some people find scheduling helpful, but external rewards and/or punishments are more useful for me personally. You would need another person for this to work (you can't reward/punish yourself as effectively; eventually you'll just quit doing it), and rewards that are motivating enough for you to strive towards, and punishments that are irksome enough that you want to avoid them. I'm reluctant to offer specific suggestions since they are so person specific.

Finally, you might want to look at your goals. Money and success are long term and somewhat ill-defined goals. Setting short term, specific, and measurable goals will help you stay focused by giving you something to shoot for now. If, for example, you start to define "success" as playing X amount of hours per day, X days a week, you'll be motivated to play more frequently because otherwise you will officially have "failed" for the week. Couple this with some sort of reward or punishment and you might have a recipe for more consistent play.

Originally Posted by bunzablood

I play better and more focused vs. regs as opposed to fish. Against some of the very best at w/e stake, I am able to beat them and sometimes hands down. However, fish godmoding me gets me on monkey tilt sometimes and I spiral out of control, fracturing my hand (twice!) or cratering wall, breaking so many things (tabletop, monitor, keyboard, mouse, fan, coffee stand etc.), stressing myself out. It doesn't affect my game that much b/c I have good discipline to walk away before too much monetary damage is done, but the stress of monkey tilt is not good for me I think! How can I approach losing repeatedly to a bad player? This is one area I need a lot of help in.

Off topic, mods please remove if this is sensitive mat'l: I remember you from somewhere. Didn't you mention somewhere in a thread that you are gay? true, false, none of my business?

Oh my, that is some serious monkey tilt.

As a short term measure, you need to invest in something you can beat on that you can't damage, or won't damage you. A pillow, a punching bag, something. Getting a punching bag and some gloves might be a solid investment for you. As opposed to replacing all those keyboards or going to the hospital for your fist.

You also need to figure out what you are thinking that is driving you to such high levels of tilt and work on correcting those underlying thoughts. it seems like you have some seriously maladaptive underlying thoughts about how other players (fish) SHOULD be acting/playing, and when they instead play like, well, like fish, the dichotomy between your internal expectations and the reality of their fishiness is close to intolerable to you.

Remember the mantra of the pro - you make money from the fish. You want there to be fish. You love fish! And just because a fish "beat" you in a specific hand, it doesn't mean anything about your skill or their skill. It's just the variance, and in the long term you are more than going to make that money back from a player that fishy.

One thing I found helpful to prevent tilt from tourney donks was to think about winning or losing the hand in terms of play, as opposed to in terms of whether or not I shipped the chips. Did I play the hand in a way that would maximize my profit? Then I won the hand. The fact that variance didn't give me the actual chips isn't something I can control, but I can control whether or not I played the hand my best, and whether I won the hand by that metric.

After an explosion you might want to look into some type of meditation or relaxation to calm down so that the stress doesn't build and impact your physical or mental health later in the day/week/month. This type of stress has a tendency to build up.

Finally, no, I'm not gay, but I am currently doing research for my dissertation on the LGB community and am fairly vocal in support of that community on various issues.

Originally Posted by Xereles

Is jealousy/envy an all around bad motivator longterm or can it work for some? I don't think it's good for the mindset but at the same time it can help me to grind a lot, still I am trying to move away from it entirely(hardly scoping people etc, caring more about what I have/can get than what others have that I want). Still, feelings like that carried me from 19-20 and it's still my worst negative emotion but I think it's helped me get in a lot of volume before. Maybe I just have the terms mixed up, it's way more of a I want to beat that guy/be better than that guy than a "why does he have money? I should have it" or "so unfair" feeling.

Long term, I think those emotions are going to be detrimental to sustaining motivation, and just generally unhealthy to fixate upon.

Thinking in terms of "shoulds" (I should have that money) or fairness are forms of magical thinking that are incompatible with poker, which is a game of math and rationality. There is no fair or unfair (or good luck or bad luck) - there is only variance, which you cannot control. Focusing on something you can't control is a recipe for tilt and adjusting your play in a negative way.

Focusing on what you can control (did I play the hand optimally?) and correcting underlying thoughts ("he's a bad player - I want bad players in my game, as long term I will make far more money off inferior players") will help you avoid frustration and put the game back into your control.

Maybe you can covert envy/jealousy into a sense of satisfaction over beating inferior players. Focus on the good feelings that can motivate (improving your game, extracting max value from poor players, avoiding losses with your superior abilities to hand read and make proper laydowns) and see if you find them as motivating.

[bunzablood]

Thanks for the advice, very helpful.

Originally Posted by SGT RJ

Oh my, that is some serious monkey tilt.

As a short term measure, you need to invest in something you can beat on that you can't damage, or won't damage you. A pillow, a punching bag, something. Getting a punching bag and some gloves might be a solid investment for you. As opposed to replacing all those keyboards or going to the hospital for your fist.

A buddy of mine (different field - miner) has anger issues and he bought a boxing dummy and he said it works great for him. Cost is $400. I think I will heed your suggestion and just get that as my punching bag..get a good workout too!

Originally Posted by SGT RJ

You also need to figure out what you are thinking that is driving you to such high levels of tilt and work on correcting those underlying thoughts. it seems like you have some seriously maladaptive underlying thoughts about how other players (fish) SHOULD be acting/playing, and when they instead play like, well, like fish, the dichotomy between your internal expectations and the reality of their fishiness is close to intolerable to you.

vs. good players, I don't care if they suck out on me repeatedly, I easily move on to the next hand...weirdly, it's only vs. fish where I become results oriented. Yeah definitely something internal is spurring this motivation on. I have heard of good players who quit the game b/c they couldn't stand losing to bad players. I am trying hard to figure out the root cause, yeah, you are spot on, I have an expectation for how they SHOULD act, and that's irrelevant, just need to remind myself that over and over.

Originally Posted by SGT RJ

Remember the mantra of the pro - you make money from the fish. You want there to be fish. You love fish! And just because a fish "beat" you in a specific hand, it doesn't mean anything about your skill or their skill. It's just the variance, and in the long term you are more than going to make that money back from a player that fishy.

I know this, just a mental block somewhere.

Originally Posted by SGT RJ

One thing I found helpful to prevent tilt from tourney donks was to think about winning or losing the hand in terms of play, as opposed to in terms of whether or not I shipped the chips. Did I play the hand in a way that would maximize my profit? Then I won the hand. The fact that variance didn't give me the actual chips isn't something I can control, but I can control whether or not I played the hand my best, and whether I won the hand by that metric.

Exactly. I have been doing this recently and it is working I believe. I think about the play, +EV, okay, doesn't matter what happens next. Again, vs. fish it is hard but i am getting better.

Originally Posted by SGT RJ

After an explosion you might want to look into some type of meditation or relaxation to calm down so that the stress doesn't build and impact your physical or mental health later in the day/week/month. This type of stress has a tendency to build up.

Yes, this is my fear, I don't want any of the stress to build up..I tend to lose my cool once in a while and it's not a pretty sight. As you say, I am definitely going to have to find out the root cause, rewire my mind, and generally tell myself that it's OKAY if a fish beats me, or get lucky on me, as they are allowed to get lucky too after all.

Originally Posted by SGT RJ

Finally, no, I'm not gay, but I am currently doing research for my dissertation on the LGB community and am fairly vocal in support of that community on various issues.

I am the B in LGB, thought u were in the community.

[SGT RJ]

Originally Posted by bunzablood

Yes, this is my fear, I don't want any of the stress to build up..I tend to lose my cool once in a while and it's not a pretty sight. As you say, I am definitely going to have to find out the root cause, rewire my mind, and generally tell myself that it's OKAY if a fish beats me, or get lucky on me, as they are allowed to get lucky too after all.



I am the B in LGB, thought u were in the community.

Not in the community per se, but vocally supportive of the community.

If you only read my response to you, look for my other response on correcting underlying thoughts via developing rational thoughts and repeating them like a mantra. This might be helpful for you as well.

Poker is one of the few competitions in which a clearly inferior player can luckbox a certain amount of success. It's very natural for people to expect that superior play = superior rewards. In the long term this tends to be true even in poker, but in the SHORT TERM, this connection breaks down because of the variance in a single hand, and that disconnect flies in the face of pretty much every other competitive endeavor.

Combine that with the disconnect between skill of play vs results (the best poker play doesn't always result in the winning of the chips), and fish getting lucky is a trigger for a lot of players.

Understanding and accepting that variance/luck factor can be difficult - it almost feels like you are saying it's okay for an awful player to beat a superior player, and our sense of fairness doesn't like that. That's why it's important to focus on the long term (a fish getting lucky makes him more likely to stick around and donate that money back) and in the short term, use whatever thought insertion techniques you can to stay focused on what you can control (the way you play) vs what you can't control (the outcome).