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shoving missed draws shoving missed draws

10-31-2014 , 09:24 AM
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 3.5 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (2 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Hero (SB) (t500)
BB (t500)

Hero's M: 16.67

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9, 2
Hero raises to t40, BB calls t20

Flop: (t80) J, 6, K (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t80) 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t40, BB calls t40

River: (t160) 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: t160

Spoiler:

Hero didn't show 9, 2 (one pair, sevens).
BB had 5, J (two pair, Jacks and sevens).
Outcome: BB won t160


This is the very first hand I played with this Brazilian villain. So: no reads.
Preflop: I always raise my first hand, no matter what I have.
Flop: bad flop for c-bets.
Turn: I could take a second free card, but a bet gets better hands to fold (A, Q, T) and maybe gains some value if I hit my flush. I like betting.
River: When he calls my turn bet, a J is his most likely holding. So let us assume he holds JT. Do I get him to lay down that hand with a shove? In hindsight I think yes. He is not beating anything but bluffs, my busted draw is not that obvious. Let me hear your opinions.

Olaf
shoving missed draws Quote
10-31-2014 , 01:19 PM
why are you so sure he is holding a jack?

I think bombing the river would be a bit wierd. Your not really repping anything but a 7 there. I think that it is just pretty un-nessesary.
shoving missed draws Quote
11-01-2014 , 04:50 AM
Quote:
Preflop: I always raise my first hand, no matter what I have.
Good plan.

Quote:
Flop: bad flop for c-bets.
I disagree.
  1. It's the $3.50s. You could probably c-bet 100% profitably against unknowns. There isn't much reason to give up here.
  2. You can represent a hand on this flop better than he can. You're the aggressor, his range is somewhat capped due to his preflop flat and flop check, and, as such, he won't be check/calling with many hands here. Most of his range is undercards, weak 2nd/3rd pairs, or some straight draws, which Villian likely won't be too confident with.
  3. If he does call, due to the static, high card nature of the flop, you can easily give up on the turn since he's unlikely to fold Kx/Jx to another barrel or two, which is a large part of his flop check/calling range.
  4. Your hand has basically no equity and no showdown value. You can't really improve on later streets apart from your backdoor flush draw and weak pair outs. C-bet here and give up if called.
Also, note the reason why you raise the first hand of every match. Your opponent has zero data on you so raising ATC is perfectly acceptable. You should be c-betting the first flop you see from the button for the same reason, certain volatile boards being the exception.

Quote:
Turn: I could take a second free card, but a bet gets better hands to fold (A, Q, T) and maybe gains some value if I hit my flush. I like betting.
Me too. You should go larger though to increase your fold equity against weaker pairs. Your line is stinky due to your flop checkback. I can't see anyone folding a pair to your $40 turn bet. $60ish.

Quote:
River: When he calls my turn bet, a J is his most likely holding. So let us assume he holds JT. Do I get him to lay down that hand with a shove? In hindsight I think yes. He is not beating anything but bluffs, my busted draw is not that obvious. Let me hear your opinions.
I wouldn't say Jx is his most likely holding. A lot of opponents will lead the turn after your checkback with good, or any, Jx. As such, I'd say his range is more weighted towards 6x, and Jx after that, when the second 7 drops on the river.

JT is never folding to a shove there. Shoving the river doesn't make much sense and is very, very suspicious when you consider the line you've taken. If he's calling on that turn he'll be calling down a ton of the time on that river. Paired rivers aren't exactly the best spots to bluff. He might not be beating anything but bluffs but you aren't exactly representing much either. I guess 7x is possible but a bluff makes much more sense.
shoving missed draws Quote
11-01-2014 , 06:49 AM
I think your line is fine/just as good as cbetting flop except i would bet bigger ott.
shoving missed draws Quote
11-01-2014 , 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fludae
[*]Your hand has basically no equity and no showdown value. You can't really improve on later streets apart from your backdoor flush draw and weak pair outs. C-bet here and give up if called.[/LIST]Also, note the reason why you raise the first hand of every match. Your opponent has zero data on you so raising ATC is perfectly acceptable. You should be c-betting the first flop you see from the button for the same reason, certain volatile boards being the exception.
Totally agree with this.
shoving missed draws Quote

      
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