Improving the HUSNG forums

[iL1keTurtles]

Hey guys,

As everyone knows, 2+2 forums are a great way to learn, and discuss strategies with other players. But, how many good regs at $50+ post strategy and hands? Not many. Why? Because most of the time they aren't asked good questions, instead low stakes regs post advice like they know everything about poker.

I was searching in other forums during some downtime today, and discovered this post from BalugaWhale (mid-high stakes cash reg) in 2008. This is the main point from it I would like to mention:

2) Respond to other people's threads, but ask more question instead of giving advice. Guess what: most of you are not really good enough to be giving that much advice. However, all of you are smart enough to ask questions and probe the depth of your knowledge. You'll learn way more from saying, "Why is it better to b/f this turn than c/c?" than saying "omg obv b/f EZ". Believe it or not, there are a few knowledgable posters/players at uNL and SSNL, and they'll really help a lot if you just ask them good questions. On the other hand, it's quite embarrassing to see a guy who can't beat 50nl dropping strat advice all over the place. That's not meant to disparage guys who struggle at this limit, but know that a lot of people struggled at those limits before they learned to be good. You just have to have the right attitude--less about your own hands, less about being the first into a thread to drop advice, more about being the first one to ask the tough question that sparks debate. Look at the SSNL master sticky-- all those threads are good because people asked tough, probing questions.

Full thread here (most of it doesn't apply to HUSNG's though): http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69...inters-207409/

I really want the 2+2 forums to become what they used to be again The days of hokiegreg, spamz, primo, rypac etc all posting strat in threads regularly are gone, but we need to revive those days, with the newer generation of HUSNG regs. A lot of good regs want to post strat (at least the ones I know), but don't because they feel like they're wasting their time and not getting anything out of it themselves (but if they were answering good questions and having to write thought out answers they would be).

So guys, when posting, try thinking of the right questions to ask, not just giving advice and not learning anything for yourself. When posting a hand, don't just ask for the right play, ask how people perceive villains range, question everything you do, and you'll improve much faster, and enjoy your time on the forums much more.

[Benjamin the Donk]

+1

I must admit I'm guilty of posting advice, even though I've only been playing hypers for a few months. Generally I try to mention I'm new so people don't take it too seriously

[bunzablood]

I can give you a few reasons why the newer generation of husng regs. are perhaps not posting strat like the older gen. regs:

-players are much better now, less fish, esp. after BF it's getting harder to find big edges, even on Stars off-peak hours (like right now) there just aren't many people playing.
-Hypers dominate now and good regs are playing these. Edges are very small. There's only so much new mat'l that can put out there without being repetitive (I'm guessing with this one as I don't watch videos but it makes sense I think).
-Why give for free? I sense a change in the way good players view 2p2. It was once a place to learn and teach, go back and forth, a forum to be free to develop. Just look at the archives going back to '09 and before. Oliver Busquet said he became the player he is SOLELY by reading strat from RIGHT HERE!!! No way that's possible now. It seems priorities are different these days, I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the climate of husngs and poker in general but that educational aspect of 2p2 is nothing like it once was. I.e., there are some solid regs who post a ton here but I have RARELY if ever seen them give strat (I won't mention names but I think you know who i'm talking about).
-Skype groups
-BF took with it good US regs who had a good command of the English language -> i.e. if you look around, there a a few forums for players who speak a certain language to make it easier for them, and most good regs now are non-US and English is not their first language.

The other day, I was having a tough time figuring out a certain line that a solid reg was taking. I perused this forum intensely looking for good strat on the topic and got nothing out of it except for the old archives from '09 and before. I finally asked a buddy who's a good reg. and we discussed it in detail over chat and we figured it out. If the climate of 2p2 was like it once was, I'd just have to post here and get answers right away.

I don't think it's anyone's fault, the climate has changed. Not sure if we can go back to the way things were...well, in time maybe when the Americans come back and a renaissance of poker will likely occur then.

[tigerjack89]

nice post and excellent points to reflect.
I really hope that this tips are useful and that many regs will return to share their knowledge with us humble mortals asap.

gl

[iL1keTurtles]

Originally Posted by bunzablood

I can give you a few reasons why the newer generation of husng regs. are perhaps not posting strat like the older gen. regs:

-players are much better now, less fish, esp. after BF it's getting harder to find big edges, even on Stars off-peak hours (like right now) there just aren't many people playing.
-Why give for free? I sense a change in the way good players view 2p2. It was once a place to learn and teach, go back and forth, a forum to be free to develop. Just look at the archives going back to '09 and before. Oliver Busquet said he became the player he is SOLELY by reading strat from RIGHT HERE!!! No way that's possible now. It seems priorities are different these days, I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the climate of husngs and poker in general but that educational aspect of 2p2 is nothing like it once was. I.e., there are some solid regs who post a ton here but I have RARELY if ever seen them give strat (I won't mention names but I think you know who i'm talking about).

Good post. This is a huge part of why myself and some of my poker friends don't post advice on the forums, we don't really want to give when we don't feel like we have anything we can gain from it, and I guess a lot of other guys would feel that way. I guess transforming the forums is impossible really, but I'm sure the forum quality can improve somewhat.

[bunzablood]

We can def. improve the quality of the forum, and the first step is to state the problem, and you have done that so good on you to write this post. Yea, the forum used to be at its core about strat, now it's the lighter stuff (I'm guilty of this too). And I've really noticed it recently, where it's tough to get 'poker' questions answered. As you mention, to give and take is the key. Dialogue, questions, not know-it-all bs, let's take this thing deeper into theory, analyze different lines, there are no stupid questions etc. Hopefully we can return to that. It is also more fun, again I agree with you there...

[coffeeyay]

This is just a list of sad excuses imo.

Highstakes regs who don't post strat are lazy imo, it's really that simple. Everyone should be studying their game and constantly improving put in practice higher stakes guys are most likely to become complacent and stop.

Just to address the points since I've been around for almost 3 years now in this sub-forum--

Questions are asked fine and there's been a lot of interesting hands and theory stuff asked--if anything people articulate themselves better than the past making it more difficult to answer things well meaning more effort required meaning more excuses to not answer. There's already tons of reason to answer and people already do ask for explanation.

Giving information for free is fine too just look for Spamz's example--it's the spirit of giving and openness that inspires good discussions and improves everyone's bottom lines--sure the high stakes reg gets a bit less out of it, but if you really think that there is no reason at all to post good strat you're doing it wrong.

So yeah before blaming the low stakes grindings--who really are posting exactly the same if not better--blame yourself. You're the guys who are sticking to your Skype groups. You're the guys who improved a year or more ago through 2p2 and now don't bother besides husng thread. And you're the guys who are missing out on improving your game and your bottom line. Post more hands, post more strat, chances are you'll learn something unless you're Skaiwalkurrrr and it will be for free and will help others too.

Not going into any of the other lol reasons because they're just lol (omg hypers solved omg poker dying omg you'll kill the game omg no money heads up everyone is solid)

So stop making excuses, whining about the "golden glory days" and just post some solid strat. I've been around and the forum is not dead, it just needs more solid players to post stuff and not be lazy. Just be like Krumb--post your LC stuff put add some strat too, based on his regs thread posts you'd think he'd never post strat but he is probably one of the best posters atm.

[Chumplestultz]

highstakes regs who don't post strat likely aren't browsing the forum anywhere near as much as they used to. i remember when spamz, primo, hokie etc all posted a ton of strat but they also posted a whole ton of LC stuff. just look at the monthly LC threads. filled with a whole bunch of other entertaining guys, filthy, A_R, AoN, mjw, Grow haha. But then they were replaced with "less entertaining" posters and guys like bunza. Strat ain't the problem, we've just got a **** team at the moment. Just gotta stick it out and wait for some good drafts and the entertaining/quality/high stakes posters like sa to have a reason to post more.

Yeh yeh, apathy etc.

[yaqh]

things haven't been the same since the split imo

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/58...sment-1206279/

[djerikas]

Originally Posted by coffeeyay

This is just a list of sad excuses imo.

Highstakes regs who don't post strat are lazy imo, it's really that simple. Everyone should be studying their game and constantly improving put in practice higher stakes guys are most likely to become complacent and stop.

Just to address the points since I've been around for almost 3 years now in this sub-forum--

Questions are asked fine and there's been a lot of interesting hands and theory stuff asked--if anything people articulate themselves better than the past making it more difficult to answer things well meaning more effort required meaning more excuses to not answer. There's already tons of reason to answer and people already do ask for explanation.

Giving information for free is fine too just look for Spamz's example--it's the spirit of giving and openness that inspires good discussions and improves everyone's bottom lines--sure the high stakes reg gets a bit less out of it, but if you really think that there is no reason at all to post good strat you're doing it wrong.

So yeah before blaming the low stakes grindings--who really are posting exactly the same if not better--blame yourself. You're the guys who are sticking to your Skype groups. You're the guys who improved a year or more ago through 2p2 and now don't bother besides husng thread. And you're the guys who are missing out on improving your game and your bottom line. Post more hands, post more strat, chances are you'll learn something unless you're Skaiwalkurrrr and it will be for free and will help others too.

Not going into any of the other lol reasons because they're just lol (omg hypers solved omg poker dying omg you'll kill the game omg no money heads up everyone is solid)

So stop making excuses, whining about the "golden glory days" and just post some solid strat. I've been around and the forum is not dead, it just needs more solid players to post stuff and not be lazy. Just be like Krumb--post your LC stuff put add some strat too, based on his regs thread posts you'd think he'd never post strat but he is probably one of the best posters atm.

+1!

[Brocky]

Too many people with their head stuck up their own arse.

[I<3Poker]

Do you think any sort of "reward" might motivate good HUSNG players to post more strategy? On pokerstrategy.com they always have their member of the month votings, best hand evaluator of the week, coolest guy of the day, biggest idiot of the hour and what not. Really seems to work, but maybe 2+2ers are to smart to 'fall for that'.

On other forums a simple "thank you" / "I like that (posting)" button + number of thanks in the profile of users seems to increase the amount of threads with useful content. But this would require installing a mod obv, so not something to decide just for the HUSNG subforum.

Any other / better ideas on how to reward users who make high quality postings? They get... ?

[tigerjack89]

Originally Posted by I<3Poker

On other forums a simple "thank you" / "I like that (posting)" button + number of thanks in the profile of users seems to increase the amount of threads with useful content. But this would require installing a mod obv, so not something to decide just for the HUSNG subforum.

I was thinking the same thing just right now... something like +rep/-rep
Obv it should be a way to control the thing, but it can works.

gl

[bunzablood]

I think Coffee is spot on here. Let's hope threads like this encourage people to become less 'lazy'. It's not just the high stakes regs, not enough good posters from the mid-stakes IMO, more means more perspectives. Personally, I'm not great at analyzing hands in a vacuum, I'm a feel-guy, yea I understand the math and what I'm generally supposed to do but I can easily let go some big hands and easily call down with Q-high other times, all depends on my opponent and gameflow, which doesn't carry over well when someone wants their hand analyzed. A whole tourney, a series, then I'm much more valuable..also, I tend to be lazy with reading posts, missing some key points here and there. Anyways, let me try to spend more time giving good strat, I'll pay careful attention to the question and not just skim over it, I'll do my part, can't just whine about it, gotta help out too...

Originally Posted by I<3Poker

Do you think any sort of "reward" might motivate good HUSNG players to post more strategy? On pokerstrategy.com they always have their member of the month votings, best hand evaluator of the week, coolest guy of the day, biggest idiot of the hour and what not. Really seems to work, but maybe 2+2ers are to smart to 'fall for that'.

On other forums a simple "thank you" / "I like that (posting)" button + number of thanks in the profile of users seems to increase the amount of threads with useful content. But this would require installing a mod obv, so not something to decide just for the HUSNG subforum.

Any other / better ideas on how to reward users who make high quality postings? They get... ?

I like the idea but not sure if that will work here...I mean, why would they care about getting a gold star?

Originally Posted by Chumplestultz

highstakes regs who don't post strat likely aren't browsing the forum anywhere near as much as they used to. i remember when spamz, primo, hokie etc all posted a ton of strat but they also posted a whole ton of LC stuff. just look at the monthly LC threads. filled with a whole bunch of other entertaining guys, filthy, A_R, AoN, mjw, Grow haha. But then they were replaced with "less entertaining" posters and guys like bunza. Strat ain't the problem, we've just got a **** team at the moment. Just gotta stick it out and wait for some good drafts and the entertaining/quality/high stakes posters like sa to have a reason to post more.

Yeh yeh, apathy etc.

You hold a grudge for a long time I see, lol!

[PantherBoy]

Yeah, not so many good strat posts anymore.