Hello everyone,

I've been lurking on the boards for a few years and I'm getting into microstakes HUSNG. Sorry this hand is not converted - it was obtained from the carbonpoker free hud. If someone knows how to make it work I would appreciate the info.

Me(BB) $1855 - VP:51 PFR:37 AF:5.2 W:37|53 STL:58|52 3B:19|63 CB:69|36 N:102 Hands:467
villain(SB) $1145 - VP:67 PFR:0 AF:1.3 W:50|50 STL:0|67 3B:0| CB:|100 N:-355 Hands:6


Pre Flop: Me(BB) with [8c,Kd]
villain(SB) calls 15, Me(BB) checks


Flop: (Qh,8s,Kc) (2 players)
Me(BB) checks, villain(SB) bets 30, Me(BB) calls 30


Turn: 4d (2 players)
Me(BB) bets 60, villain(SB) calls 60


River: Qs (2 players)
Me(BB) bets 120, villain(SB) raises 240, Me(BB) calls 120

Why not checkraise flop, or check turn?

Thank you for the response.

What would flop C/R be for? Value against Kx? I see that folding out a lot of worse hands (Qx, 8x, Ax), and failing to get value from draws and weak pairs.

I probably should C/R more super-strong flops though, so that's a good reminder!

What's the question?

I'm wondering if I should fold the river here. Although I am open to other thoughts about how I played the hand as well.

I don't think you should bet river as played and I would prob check call. You aren't getting called by much.

Either check raise flop, or check call/check raise turn. Check calling flop and donking on that turn doesn't make any sense.

Thank you for the input. Do you mind enlightening me as to why my line doesn't make sense?

Ur line doesnt make sense cause u are trying to pot control on the flop when it was a good spot to try to gii but u went for a super thin value bet on the river

River u are folding away all worse made hands with ur bet and u shut down villains bluff range at all

I thot ur plan on the flop was to let villain continue giving u money with his bluff range but then u made an awkward lead
Once he calls and river is a q u are at best chopping

Your line just doesn't make sense to me. It would be better for you to explain why you check called flop to lead on that turn. I can then explain why your thought process might be wrong.

The standard thing is to either let villain continue to bluff us ott, or value bet worse and we can raise or slowplay again.

The only time that turn leads make sense is if that card improves your range, or that villain is very likely checking behind, which I don't think so on that blank card.

I would most likely just check raise flop or donk flop at low stakes games though unless I have some reads.

Flop/turn may not be "standard" but it's far from horrible. River just seems stupid to lead given the only card you didn't want to see came off and you still bet half pot it seems. May go for like a really small blockbet on river vs random on low stakes to get called by virtually any two cards, but 120 is too much imo. Definitly not calling raise, even if odds are amazing. Also consider (min-)raising preflop, it's about the worst hand I'd do it with but I think it's better than checking, as long as you know how to play postflop.

x/c flop is fine, but i'd be raising at microstakes, i don't think people bluff these boards often enough. ofc you can lead turn, it's not that bad with your holding actually, but leading this turn in general (with parts of your range) shows a general misunderstanding of this spot. x/c or x/r turn. as played, check riv and decide based on bet size.

If you really have reads that villian folds everything but top pair+ when check raised, and assuming he's CB% is standard, you should be check raising a lot.

What are the merits of a check-calling flop, then leading the turn, compared to the more "traditional" lines of check-rasing flop and barreling turn, or check-calling both flop and turn?

I'm pretty sure there are spots where check-calling flop, then leading the turn is the most+ev play, I just don't know with what ranges/frequencies one should be employing this

Frequency shouldn't be high. All of this just assuming villain is a random so we don't really need to worry about handranges. Best isn't hard to figure out really, hands that may not have been super at flop but now improved, and the board is vulnerable (read: lots of stuff that can outdraw us that is likely to check back but also call a bet). Like J9 on T93J, lots of onecardstraightdraws that villain can call with. Or 43dd on T97ddQd. Try it with stuff like that and see how it goes.

Thanks spamz. If one of the scare card for us appear on the river, would the default play be there to bet/fold?
What about looking to check-call a scary looking board? (for your example, T93J, and 8 on the river)
Is it too ambitious and wishful thinking that villian spazzes with random hands or weak made hands- turned to bluffs because he realized it has very little showdown value?

Yeah it's hard to say what's best vs a random since it's entirely possible that people are not used to seeing this line and may end up spewing more (plus the fact that this board is not great to bluff at etc etc).

But as part of an overall game plan leading turn here doesn't make much sense. Also as I said before and mentioned by others leading river is not good (what worse hands are you getting called by? you even block 8x) and you should check decide.

The amount of times showdown gets turned into bluffs is too little in my experience. Rather bet/fold smallish with J9 on T93J8 than c/c almost always.

Thanks all. Very helpful things to think about.

FWIW my logic was to slowplay the flop. Don't know what I was thinking on the turn. The river bet I see now more clearly than anything as poor play.

Much appreciate the input. Back to the grind.

I don't get why you do this, whats the advantage of clicking it back preflop over raising to ~80-90 and have a bit of fold equity? do you click back your whole preflop opening range at this depth, hes actually kinda deep here

spamz, ty brotha