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Old 07-23-2012, 03:21 AM   #1
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$7 HT

2nd hand of match 1st hand he fired twice then checked back river with QT on [7h Td 3d Ac] [6d] ( I had 97)

I feel like I've got to call here, but only just, which makes me wonder if I should check instead of betting.

    Poker Stars, $6.85 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    BB: 660 (33 bb)
    Hero (SB): 340 (17 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with 9 J
    Hero raises to 40, BB calls 20

    Flop: (80) 2 8 7 (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets 40, BB raises to 620 and is all-in


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    Old 07-23-2012, 03:42 AM   #2
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    Re: $7 HT

    You've got a gutshot that could be behind even some bluffs, if he has any. Just fold.
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    Old 07-23-2012, 03:50 AM   #3
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    Re: $7 HT

    He also has two overcards.
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    Old 07-23-2012, 03:59 AM   #4
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    Re: $7 HT

    cbet is fine. You dont have the odds to call a shove.
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    Old 07-23-2012, 04:04 AM   #5
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    Re: $7 HT

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DarkSide11 View Post
    cbet is fine. You dont have the odds to call a shove.
    This. What if he would have 9T?
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    Old 07-23-2012, 04:27 AM   #6
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    Re: $7 HT

    OESD + two overs is good enough to bet/call.

    What about check/shoving the J9 hand?
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    Old 07-23-2012, 06:27 AM   #7
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    Re: $7 HT

    He has gutshot + 2 overs vs villains 8x hands we dont have odds to call jam but if we add some draws like T9 and 96s than we have odds to call so imo call his jam and allways cbeting.
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    Old 07-23-2012, 09:16 AM   #8
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    Re: $7 HT

    I don't think GS + 2 overs is good enough here, villain could have a better hand quite easily.

    If the board is 234 and you hold 67, do you really think your 2 overs are good???
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    Old 07-23-2012, 09:49 AM   #9
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    Re: $7 HT

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Benjamin the Donk View Post
    I don't think GS + 2 overs is good enough here, villain could have a better hand quite easily.

    If the board is 234 and you hold 67, do you really think your 2 overs are good???
    What has that to do with the given situation of OP?
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    Old 07-24-2012, 08:37 AM   #10
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    Re: $7 HT

    He has J-high atm + a gut shot. A lot of people are mentioning overcards as if they add a lot of equity (or at least that's the way I have interpreted it) but when highest overcard is a jack I think this is flawed reasoning.
    There are a lot of overcards that villain could have to the jack, which greatly reduces the overcard value vs villain's range. Even K6o is about 3:2 favourite vs that hand on that board.

    The point of my previous post was overcards shouldn't always be counted as outs (or full outs) if they are relatively weak.
    Maybe I've misunderstood something above but that was how I saw it.
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    Old 07-24-2012, 11:39 AM   #11
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    Re: $7 HT

    t120 dead money, we need to call our remaining t260.

    We're getting 380:260 or 1.46:1, so we need 40.6% equity.

    We have 42.273% vs { K8s, Q8s, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, 96s, 85s+, 65s, K8o, Q8o, J8o+, T8o+, 98o, 96o, 86o+, 65o }

    This is assuming we discard 22, 77, 88, A8 from his flatting range.

    Our equity is reduced if villain shoves 7x because it deludes his draws (the part of his range we're ahead of).
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    Old 07-24-2012, 12:06 PM   #12
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    Re: $7 HT

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quimp View Post
    We're getting 380:260 or 1.46:1, so we need 40.6% equity.
    We need to call 13bb to win 34bb = 38,2% equity
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    Old 07-24-2012, 12:30 PM   #13
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    Re: $7 HT

    You're right, it's 420:260 = 38.2%. Next time I'll save some time and look at it in BBs instead!
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    Old 07-24-2012, 06:07 PM   #14
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    Re: $7 HT

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by I<3Poker View Post
    OESD + two overs is good enough to bet/call.
    It's 260 to call a pot that would be 680, which is a good bet if we have more than a 260/680 = 38.2% chance to win. The chances we improve with two draws to our 10 is 38.4%. So even if we assume hit=win, it's just barely correct odds to call.

    But hit=win is a bad assumption as sometimes he counterfits our outs (eg if he holds J8, we really only have 7 outs). Sometimes he will hit a redraw (eg he has K8 and the turn/river are J,K). Sometimes we hit and still lose (he has 87 or 22 and the turn/river comes J,K). To be fair, these will be offset some by situations where we actually are ahead of his bluff or semi-bluff, though those look rare here. If we knew he had 56 or T9, we would call.

    If we knew he had Q3, we would not call. If we hit, he has a 3 out redraw, which he hits about 6% of the time. This will be very typical and it will tip the balance. Our chance to improve and he doesn't are 38.4% * 94% = 36.8%.

    Betting 40 on the flop to win 80 is fine.

    Last edited by bwtaylor; 07-24-2012 at 06:13 PM. Reason: fix math
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    Old 07-24-2012, 07:57 PM   #15
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    Re: $7 HT

    snap
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