I am not completely sure with what range of hands I should call an all-in 3bet shove vs a player I haven't played before in the early stages of a turbo match. (50-75 bb deep)

I would like to distinguish 5 player types based on looked up results:
- Losing player
- Break-even player
- Winning player
- New to the game or to the site (less then 100 games)
- Unknown, in case u cannot look villain up

What ranges do you suggest? Thanks

I suggest calculating required equity to call, then putting each of these types of players on a 3b jamming range and then computing all hands that have the required equity vs that range.

Post the ranges you are thinking of if unsure and wanting help, I'm sure there will be people in the forum who can help you with adjusting them, but the calculating is up to you I suggest ProPokerTools Odds Oracle or some other tool.

I had similar problem today - reg shoved for the 2nd time over my btn open in like 15-20 hands, maybe less (lets say around 50bb eff). I had AK, called his shove - he had 44. And I was thinking, if I can assume that regs according to training vids are 3bet shoving weak pp than should I call with better pockets and suited connectors and suited gappers only? Should I acctully fold hands like AKo AQo?

don't fold AK AQ, it takes very few combos of random **** and random Ax to make it a mistake. In fact so few that you may never even know you're making a mistake because of sample size issues

What possibly made you think that folding AK but calling suited connectors would be better? if I minr the button and get shoved on at 50bbs effective, I'm probs calling 88+ AJ+, it seems super nitty and exploitable so I think this might be bad, would be interested to hear he opinions of someone better than me

Maybe I got it worng, but I also checked it in pokerstove, some coach from husng.com told in his video that only way to counter 3bet shoving w/low pp is to call with suited connectors.

with 98s you are 52% favourite vs 22-66 when with AKo you are behind (46% equity)

If you knew that your opponent has a small pocket pair and you have a SC like 98s, TJs, QJs then it's +EV to call.
Problem is you can't see villain's cards (and even then you would need a higher SC at the right time to exploit).
That coach was PHMERC btw.

So you advocate just folding other hands that top of our range 50-70bb deeb and dont worry too much about those spots?

that is a very small % difference in equity, though significant I'll agree. As mentioned, ofc you cannot see the villains cards, so think of all those times he's shoving A2-AQ, KQ, KJ KT, JQ, and ur ak has him crushed, 98s would fare significantly worse vs these hands, especially when compared to AKo. This is why you need to consider his range as a whole.

yeah I understand that but what if we are talking about reg who has normal nai3b range when 50-70bb deep and some 3bet shoves?

Even if his 3-bet shoves are always small PPs (in the beginning) you would need to be dealt a higher SC at the right time to make the call and exploit him. After you've done this twice he could simply mix some stronger aces in his all-in 3-bet range to exploit your exploit.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I was always thinking that 3bet shoving over minraise being 70bb deep is a retarded concept. You will do it with a premium and will get fold, hooray. You will do it with a low pp and will get crushed or flip coins. Whats the point? Getting a fold and winning 2 bb, being 70 bb deep in a first place?

You're right, deep stacked one should just flat normal sized raises with small pocket pairs and set-mine because the implied odds are good. At the low stakes people tend to overplay their small PPs.

Hey I guess I figured I would comment to clarify a couple things I happened to see in this thread. It all boils down to ranges and how your villain is playing certain ranges. If you are playing a random fish and he 3b shoves at 65bbs you should snap fold a hand like 98s because villain's range is a lot wider than 22-66. This particular thought process of calling off your stack with suited connectors is to be used vs low level thinking players who only 3b shove 22-77 at 50bbs+. All the other hands they will nai 3b like AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, etc. Always think about your opponent and how they are thinking.

Also just work the math on it and understand that if you figure out the data correctly the math is very much on your side. Say you are playing a thinking reg who understands that you are raising 92% preflop so his best expectation with 22-66 at 60bbs oop facing your mr or 2.5x or 3x is to 3b shove vs you (this is correct and can be verified using either insane steve or the husng.com 3b shove calculator, fold equity + equity when called). He is going to get a fold vs you most of the time and when called be slightly ahead vs the majority of our range unless... we have T9s vs this player and we snap call (as we would with our entire suited connector range 98s+), now you are correct and he is incorrect because of the way you adapted your range to him. As a specific example, if we're at 10/20 at 65bbs (1300 chips) with T9s, we make it 50 and villain shoves we have to call 1250/2600 which means we need 48% to call. With T9s vs 22-66 we actually have over 50% so it's an ez call but this math gets interesting when you use it in other spots (most ppl think you always need at least 50% to call, they are not accounting for this chips we have already invested into the pot, actually making it profitable for us to call in some spots with less than 50%). Think about another situation, if you 3b KQs vs this same type of reg from 40 to 140 first hand of the game (75bbs) and he 4b shoves. Remember this is a low level, but solid, thikning reg. We have to call 1360/3000 or need 45% to call. We have card removal to AK, AQ, KK and QQ and the likelihood that villain won't just 4b shove AA, we are +ev to call off our stack there with KQs. It's just math. Put villain's shoving range into pokerstove and see for yourself. The most important thing is figuring out how your opponent is thinking, and adapt to that. If you are employing this strategy vs a loltard, you will be pretty -ev.

Back to the original example, facing a 3b shove at 50bbs+ vs this reg, it gets interesting and fun if you guys develop a history and this reg starts trying to "level" you by shoving AK, AQ type hands. He is losing a lot of expected value by shoving those hands that deep vs you instead of nai 3b (unless you continue to call off his shoves with suited connectors lol). So always pay attention to your opponent and the way they think and if/how they are adjusting and go from there.

You also need to look at holecard frequencies. Suited cards are a less likely occurence than offsuit, i.e. AKo will occur ~ 3 times more than 98s, thus you need to take that into account when you think about this, otherwise you're giving him good FE.