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05-14-2012, 07:27 PM
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#16
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centurion
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 170
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Re: 3 Bet Calling Ranges
Quote:
Originally Posted by genher
a better approach might be to calculate at what eff stack in BB you can minRaise/call a shove vs 2 or 3 typical 3 bet shoving range. something like that :
1st column is your equity, 2nd is at what stack depth (in BB b4 posting)you can minraise/ call a shove. for instance: you can minraise call a shove with K8o at 6.8BB or shallower if your villain 3 betshove any A, any pair, Any Bdway. But not any deeper than that.
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Awesome tool, thanks genher.
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05-14-2012, 09:34 PM
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#17
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veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 2,538
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Re: 3 Bet Calling Ranges
Quote:
Originally Posted by stone75
^
nice. which tool did you use for the math? propokertools?
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cardrunnersEV
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05-14-2012, 09:44 PM
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#18
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_Pooh_Bah_
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 9,190
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Re: 3 Bet Calling Ranges
Wow Genher great post! would also like to hear how you made it.
edit: Cardrunners EV just spits it out like that? or you did loads of work with excel too?
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05-14-2012, 09:50 PM
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#19
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veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 2,538
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Re: 3 Bet Calling Ranges
cardrunnersEV can generate the Equity for every hand vs a range then it's just a matter of copying it to the spreadsheet and input a simple formula to find out the eff stack
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05-14-2012, 10:03 PM
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#20
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_Pooh_Bah_
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 9,190
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Re: 3 Bet Calling Ranges
hmm I have code to do the equity for every hand vs any range (and fast too!), but the "simple formula" part I do not know, lol I should really. I'm sure I can work it out if I think about it, but do you mind sharing?
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05-14-2012, 10:18 PM
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#21
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veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 2,538
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Re: 3 Bet Calling Ranges
Quote:
Originally Posted by _dave_
hmm I have code to do the equity for every hand vs any range (and fast too!), but the "simple formula" part I do not know, lol I should really. I'm sure I can work it out if I think about it, but do you mind sharing?
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I have done this a long time ago. Now I kind of "know". I even had to scan a old paper cause I can't find it on my pc. I honestly can't remember too well but I think something like 1+(eq vs the range/100*2))/(1-(eq vs the range/100*2) !?? you might have to double check tho
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05-14-2012, 11:07 PM
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#22
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veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 2,538
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Re: 3 Bet Calling Ranges
Quote:
Originally Posted by _dave_
hmm I have code to do the equity for every hand vs any range
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what type of code?
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05-14-2012, 11:45 PM
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#23
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_Pooh_Bah_
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 9,190
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Re: 3 Bet Calling Ranges
hackish AutoHotkey, naturally  Though it won't do individual cards, only e.g. AQo vs 22+ A2s+ A8o+ for example. but individual suitedness is irrelevant preflop imo unless you're superusering. basiclaly I've got all the individual had matchups pre-calculated/saved (this took many hours!) and can just rip through the results that make up a range, balancing according to weight. Though there's plenty of code out there to actually do the hand vs hand results, RayW "2+2 evaluator" in crazy hacker C++ (naturally) being the fastest currently known.
Quote:
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I even had to scan a old paper
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awesome. now you mention it it's obvious from the pic, at first I just wondered wtf compression used on this lol.
I don't understand that equation but it's a starting point, thanks  no 3 or perhaps 1.5 in it confuses me lol.
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05-15-2012, 12:40 AM
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#24
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veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 2,538
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Re: 3 Bet Calling Ranges
Quote:
Originally Posted by _dave_
I don't understand that equation but it's a starting point, thanks  no 3 or perhaps 1.5 in it confuses me lol.
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ya doesn't look right  I'll have a bit more time later (I think...) I'll look into it
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05-15-2012, 03:53 AM
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#25
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Europe
Posts: 6,584
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Re: 3 Bet Calling Ranges
you have a screwed up column, check 3s in the bottom table
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05-15-2012, 09:54 AM
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#26
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veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 2,538
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Re: 3 Bet Calling Ranges
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpazz
you have a screwed up column, check 3s in the bottom table
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yes you are right. this old sheet is all fckedup. Originaly I just wanted to show OP the kind of thing he could do but he looks like I have just given myself a bit of extra work
Anyhow, now that I have posted this I might as well post something correct. So @ Dave formula is : (1.5+Eq vs the range)/(1-(2*Eq vs the range)) that should give you the effective stack in BB AFTER posting but BEFORE minRaising when you can call the 3 bet shove.
and here is the corrected sheet:
as before first column is the Equity vs the range and second column shows the eff stack in BB where you can minRaise/call the 3 bet shove (obviously shallower is ok too)
Should be ok now ( I have only checked 3, it's late here  ) let me know if there is any more bugs
if anyone want the same kind of sheet but with a different range ask quickly while I am on a roll, i'll do it.
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05-15-2012, 12:22 PM
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#27
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journeyman
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bitcoins? Bitcoin Poker? PM me
Posts: 256
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Re: 3 Bet Calling Ranges
If you wouldn't mind, chart against some more spewy/shalow 3bet jam range would be nice,
imo sth like: 22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q4s+,J6s+,T6s+,96s+,86s+,76s,A2o+,K5 o+,Q7o+,J7o+,T8o+,98o
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05-15-2012, 02:17 PM
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#28
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enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 50
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Re: 3 Bet Calling Ranges
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajak666
If you wouldn't mind, chart against some more spewy/shalow 3bet jam range would be nice,
imo sth like: 22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q4s+,J6s+,T6s+,96s+,86s+,76s,A2o+,K5 o+,Q7o+,J7o+,T8o+,98o
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ROFL. bro, the guy has already been nice enough to go out of his way to post the corrected chart and has also given the formula and the website that he was able to do this at. its not something that just take a minute. if you want him to expand the 3bet/calling range either offer him money or do it yourself IMO. jeesh. ty to OP that actually really came in handy to me.
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05-15-2012, 02:19 PM
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#29
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enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 50
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Re: 3 Bet Calling Ranges
*not OP, but genher i ment.
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05-15-2012, 02:57 PM
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#30
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journeyman
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bitcoins? Bitcoin Poker? PM me
Posts: 256
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Re: 3 Bet Calling Ranges
Quote:
Originally Posted by genher
if anyone want the same kind of sheet but with a different range ask quickly while I am on a roll, i'll do it.
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